Thursday, January 30, 2014

#280-Jeff Arnold and His "Idiot" Friends.




So basically this happened last week at Because of the Times (no, not the Kings of Leon album, but the preacher's conference that was named after the album):



And by "this happened" I really mean a Jeff Arnold sermon-rant to formally announce his senility. Literally, the dude was Khrushchev slamming his shoe on a podium, a rambling Richard Sherman in a postgame interview, a conservative Michael "Shame on you Mr. Bush" Moore at the Oscars. In short, Jeff Arnold pulled a Kanye in front of anyone who matters in the UPC. And it's not like we didn't see it coming.

For those who haven't been paying attention to Twitter or simply got wise enough to not really care one iota about the ongoing Reality TV tragicomedy that is the UPC, let me tell ya, you're missing a whole lot of chuckle moments.

But to catch you up to speed.. here's the run-down of Mr. Arnold's sermon:

-Confesses aspirations to be lauded by God as one of the greatest preachers of all-time.

-Confirms this greatness by unleashing what is allegedly one of the most homophobic and "hate your enemy" rants of all time. "Fag" was thrown about freely and not just for shock value but because he's Jeff Arnold and he reads his Bible, man. (Proof of God's grace: God chose Arnold to be a preacher and not someone who can change much of anything. So thank God Arnold is all talk, because if this guy found himself in some real kind of political position, there'd be no telling what kind of hate laws he'd be throwing around right about now. And no telling what kind of quack-job excuses people would come up with to defend this hypothetical, hate-mongering Congressman Arnold. )

-A nice little oratory aside that bashed that there Barack Hussein Obama. Which included a little throw-in that called African-Americans "darkies." And since the audio/video has been so generously cast to the Sea of Forgetfulness, we'll have to rely on a paraphrase of how Arnold used the term "Darkie": "What's the world coming to when you have darkies in the White House and whities working the cotton fields?"

And then to top it off... how bout his knockout punch: Calling our president a faggot.

I wish I were joking. But i'm not.

-The most entertaining tirade was aimed indirectly at John Maxwell by way of a revered UPCI licensed minister... Specifically a Pastor Stan Gleason... and roll film:


 To give you  context: It was the unnamed Stan Gleason who purported to expound on John Maxwell's point earlier that evening. And it was this point that Arnold was alluding to when he decided to just go all guns a' blazin and call Gleason.... An Idiot

Now cue our unofficial Jeff Arnold theme song to fully enhance your reading pleasure:
 Because Of The Times 2014 somehow ended up being The Comedy Central Roast Of Rev. Stan Gleason, except instead of funny it was just sad. Not sad because a well-known and loved man was verbally accosted in front of a couple G’s worth of people. Not even sad because it was like watching someone advance two stages in Alzheimer’s before our very eyes. The saddest part is what followed.

-Those seeking to purchase the anointed and soul-winning word given that evening by Rev. Jeffrey “The Insult Comic” Arnold were told it wouldn’t be available because “it’s being edited.” Shortly thereafter videos posted or tweeted by attendees were requested to be taken down. A tweet went out (reportedly, its since been removed, if anyone has a screen shot please send it) which instructed people “not to tweet what Jeff Arnold is saying right now.” (*edit* an anonymous commenter sent us the picture. See below*)




Luckily for your trusty Apostolic version of TMZ, we gots two of the vids before the Christian NSA pulled them. Of course, one person commented, “Take this down,” and I was DM’d on Twitter “In the name of Jesus take this down.” Jesus on the mainline, tell him what you want! “Um yeah Jesus, can you get these guys to delete a youtube video? Kthxbai!”

The uploader of the video himself was sent a letter by one of the UPC big wigs asking him to like, you know, just like, in the name of all error passing under the blood, just you know, be a good sport and take it down because at the end of the day we are all brothers in Christ.

And I'm all like, I don't want to be a part of any system where me and that there Jeff Arnold are "brothers in Christ."

Now, dear reader, you may think this post is all about the wickity wack nonsensical freestyle Jeff was spitting. But Jeff throws down with this veracity all the time. The troubling thing is what the followed after the message..

If there’s one thing the UPCI is proud of it’s “the Truth.” It’s on banners. It’s the subject of horribly written books. It’s the name. It’s an identity. But somewhere along this narrative of truthiness, my homies in the UPC ceased caring about being true. Being true to morals. Being true to ethics. Being true to society. Loving true, serving true, speaking true. For Gods sake, LIVING TRUE.

How does The Truth respond to a controversy? The same way every crooked politician, every plundering banker, every despot and delinquent does. They tried. To cover. It up. Like a cat burying it’s turd, they tried to hide this turd of a sermon.

They could have let it stand on it’s own. We live and die by our merit and given the opportunity, this festering piece of crap of a sermon could have been eye rolled into obscurity and passed off as “well that’s just Jeffy Pop, what do you expect?”

But what DO you expect POA? You know this guy. You know what he’s capable of. In an increasingly ADD society. What do you think someone’s going to do who thrives on being edgy? It’s 2014! He’s competing with Miley, Kanye and another Scorsese coke-fest. He’d have to put on a donkey show to get the same reactions he got twenty years ago and those reactions are like a drug to the guy! He’s the washed up actress from when we were teenagers who shows her naughty bits in Playboy just to keep the kids in private school!

Does this sound profane to you? Just following the lead of my favorite man of God, my bad.

But let's take a real big step back and realize the bigger problem: It's not about just how much of hell's fury is permissible three years after you started becoming pastor. It's not about whether or not Arnold is anointed at this. And it's not even over whether or not the Truth is to be censored, BLESS GOD. Because that's all opinion, and somehow we believe having an opinion actually matters. In a world of FOX NEWS, MSNBC's, and rambling maniacal news broadcasters, opinion and commentary is all we watch and it's the only way we know how to communicate when something scandalous happens. I'm no different. And it feels icky just being one more voice out here kinda upset/kinda laughing real hard over this Arnold mess.... When all Arnold was really doing was spewing out politically incorrect opinions of his own. Really, opinions are boring and they distract from the bigger point:

Jeff Arnold is a symptom of the UPC and not the cause of it's problems. More specifically, Mangun and the rest of the POA/BOTT leadership team were trying real hard to enact damage control to soften the blow of any resulting controversy over what Arnold said (sadly more people are pissed at Arnold's "Idiot" comment than really showing the slightest bit of concern that his hate speech  may be causing more and more segregation in the Pentecostal ranks and likewise alienating any potential homosexual from coming back to the UPC).....

But whichever old-man Arnold rant angers us the most, the point is the BOTT staff knew what they were getting into with Arnold and they facilitated it, because, "For a good sermon, Call Jeff at 555-QUACK." Arnold's entertaining. And Mangun gave BOTT what it really prizes: An entertainer. And sure the UPC may just like downplay the whole thing and say "Gleason and Arnold are friends and it's really just a bit of miscommunication is all." And that sounds all nice and cute and pretty, but don't fall for such rhetorical nonsense. Jeff Arnold's sermon is not the rare mishap. It's rather the bad apple that grew from a rotten tree. The UPC needs loud and obnoxious preachers to keep our attention and Arnold is just that. Otherwise we'd just quickly yawn and look at our watches and wonder when is this whole thing gonna end so I can go flirt with the girl of my dreams at Applebee's.

But for now, we'll get a tranquilized/muzzled Jeff Arnold and the Pentecostal of Alexandria leadership team will put on it's smiling face and be all polite and shake your hand and when you bring up the Arnold sermon, they'll chuckle and change the conversation real fast. And it's gonna be boring.  And we'll stop listening and look for the next Kanye/Arnold/Richard Shermon on youtube, and we'll laugh and get angry and really not care for the BOTT as much because they aren't producing that kind of reality tv show Jeff Arnold rant-a-thon anymore....

But everyone will be cozy and the UPC will be able to quietly and gradually fade away. And this time,  without comment.







78 comments:

  1. any idea of Gleason's response to the whole mess?
    I love that Arnold's ideology of how to address spiritual/moral issues in a church is to close his eyes, spout off his same old message (whether it is relevant to his congregation or not) and if they don't "get" it and improve in their spiritual journey, then it's obviously not his fault. they just need brain surgery. why should he have to grow in HIS calling as a LEADER and actually develop new ideas on complex issues.....
    thanks for the update on the silly organization i grew up in.
    sorry this isn't one of the angry comments you're probably looking forward to.

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  2. well done sir. well done. At least he used the politically correct term's "darkies" and "whities." And this isnt the first time I've heard fags being used at a UPC event. If one can remember a youth convention where Mr. Omar Jolly (not sure if i'm right about the name) talked about fags in his youth group. But hey, they've probably had a rough life. At least its entertaining. Although I'm kind of disappointed he didn't at least start twerking. Praise God Brother!

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    1. he didn't use the terms "darkies" and "whities" ... but don't let the truth get in the way of your posting on this lame knock off of Stuff Christians Like..

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    2. Classic. I have others who were there saying otherwise. And for the hundredth time: Stuff Christians Like is lame I ripped off Stuff Christian Culture Likes which was also the inspiration for Stuff Fundies liked, and that brilliant girl over at Stuff Christian Culture Likes maybe ripped off Stuff Christians Like, although I'm not positive since her writing is so much better.... And then of course we all know Stuff Christians Like ripped off stuff white people Like. So get it right on proper attributions please.

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    3. If you have proof that he didn't say it then post it. If you were there and heard it first hand then get out from behind the anonymous moniker and give credence to your statement. Just because you prefer to believe the apologists doesn't make their defenses true.

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    4. his actual quote was "this is not about we have a black man in the white house and white people are in the field. That's stupid. You need to get that junk out of your head. This is about the word of God..."

      I don't agree with how/what Jeff Arnold said at Bott. Nevertheless he is someone who has given his life to helping others. (not talking about the pulpit btw)

      The bible says to let your speech be seasoned with salt.. Jeff Arnold should have taken that advice and so should this blog. Why spend so much time talking about something you despise?

      Also, Regardless of who you ripped off the idea from.. it's still unoriginal and by your own claims a retread of a retread.

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    5. Did Jeff Arnold call Obama a "Faggot?" Anonymous?

      Also read Jean Baudrillard. More specifically his Simulacra and Simulation and maybe you'll get a slight whiff of how not to look totally detached from your century when you make comments about "retreads of retreads." Praying for you. God Bless.

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  3. A mighty fine post. Nobody else really tells me what's going on.

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  4. And Dude. I'm seriously. Drop half a dozen digits from your captcha.

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    1. Ha, sorry, we actually have no control over that. It's just how blogspot is set up. Sorry!

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  5. If the worst I'm going to see is that the captcha is too long then I'm done waiting for the funny angry comments. Come on someone. Tell Joel how subversive he is or something. I'm trying to avoid homework here. Give me something funny to read.

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  6. to quote our dear savior; "It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth."

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  7. So we publicly slam those we think are wrong for publicly slamming someone. Hypocrisy anyone?

    This kind of stuff does nothing but create controversy from controversy... and could weaken the faith of sincere people. Shame on you for making a bad situation worse.

    Scott Phillips

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    1. No this stuff only helps people from blindly following cults. If I see someone drinking the purple Kool-Aid, I can't help but scream at them to stop. Sincere people should be able to see right through this (and if need be, helped to see it). I assume you think it is better to cover shit up, than to have it come to light. But sadly, that's what people tend to think when they are brain washed. And thanks Joel and Glen for continuing to open up eyes to this crap.

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  8. you didn't have to sign your name, Scott. that's why you typed in your name in the "comment as" field. we get it.

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  9. Actually Kings of Leon named their album after Because of the Times. Not vice versa.

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    1. True. BOTT was started in 1983 by the Mangun family at the POA. It has been an annual UPC conference since. Its been customary for years for Bro Arnold to deliver the last sermon of the conference.

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  10. Hahaha. Ya think???

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  11. My cousin was texting a friend who was at POA during the sermon and he texted her to say Jeff Arnold just called Obama a faggot.

    If he didn't say these things then POA should release the video to prove it. Otherwise, keeping the video private only makes it seem like all these rumors are true.

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  13. awww man i wanted to read scott's comeback.

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  14. Has anyone seen the video or heard the audio of the sermon?

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  15. I am not a fan of JA and hope he preached his last BOTT. Unlike the author, I was at BOTT 2014 and JA did not use the word "drakes" and he did not call the president a faggot. He did call Bro. Gleason an idiot, although many say he was referring to Maxwell and he did you the word fag in reference to homosexuals. That is the truth from someone who was actually there and not heresy. Believe or not, take it or leave it, but that is the truth.

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    1. how can I hear Rev. Jeff Arnold's full message that night or myself...I've looked everywhere and want to decide for myself...please reply

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    2. Anon, POA, to the best of our knowledge, has not and will not be releasing the sermon. Due to the lascivious nature of what Mr. Arnold said throughout it seems they've deemed it best to save face by attempting to bury the sermon rather than let it be heard and assessed by the public. It's shameful and certainly not the behavior of "men of god," but that moniker doesn't seem to mean what it used to. I encourage you to call or email POA and Mr. Mangun directly and ask them to publish the sermon, but I doubt you'll get anywhere. Saving face beats ethics with this bunch.

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  16. Was supposed to be "d a r k i e s" would not let me say it. Sorry

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  17. We've heard both, several times, all from people who were. We don't claim we were there but there are conflicting stories. All POA has to do to clear this up is release the tape. If the worst part is already out there then why withhold it?

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  18. Wow. That was enlightening, to see how preachers really feel about God's sheep and about sinners. Who is he to call other people wackos, and dingbats? Who is he to call anyone a fag or queer? Where is the love? I'm shocked to see people were appluding him.

    We need to pray for JA and ask God to forgive him and have mercy on him. Pastors are called to look after God's flock not to beat and abuse them. I've found it hard to go to church much anymore. All I hear is how people aren't giving enough tithes, how people who don't come to morning and night service are back-slidding, how we should listen and obey the pastor and not ask questions. If you're not hollering and jumping around in church the pastors don't think you understand the message. They get some sort of high out of other people's reaction to their message. God forbid you don't give them the reaction they crave they will shake their heads and contort their faces.

    I feel sad for brother JA , he is not responsible for sin in the lives of the church people, but he is responsible for his words and actions. We have to be careful with our words because when we speak those words we cannot take them back. Words have a way of setting things in motion. Our words don't just stay here in the physical dimesion but it also goes out into the spiritual dimension.

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  19. JA never said "darkies" . He DID use "fags" in reference to homosexuals . And was upset by the president's support of them . He did not call the president himself a faggot. He also did, clearly, refer to Bro Stan Gleason as an "idiot". Anyone trying to deflect that comment to Maxwell is in damage control mode. Bro Gleason is most definitely not an idiot.
    My personal opinion is that he went way too far and should not be invited back. I do not think it is a mistake to edit his words as they have already inflamed those that apparently have a bone to pick and a pension for gossip. I can't imagine having this much time on my hand to waste on those I have such bitter disdain for , regarfless of my reasoning.
    Bottom line : JA was wrong , backbiting is wrong. What's the hoped outcome of this ? Some sort of retribution ?

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  20. I love how the answer to avoid "weakening the faith of sincere people" is to bury this under the rug and pretend this preacher who's been put on a pedestal for years and paid thousands for his public speaking engagements is still a "good man of God." Did it ever occur to some that not acknowledging this unGodly display of UPC showmanship is what's actually eroding the faith of many sincere people? #voicesofthejaded

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  21. Has Alexandria said they will not release the tape of the sermon?

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  22. I'm always the first to jump at these comments, never seeming to change anything, but here I go...

    Attempting to discredit something someone wrote by seeking to discredit the author is what is called...altogether now... a logical fallacy.

    We, yet again, have been labeled bitter in an attempt to discredit this post. Newsflash Walter Cronkite, we're bitter. (You should listen to your friend Billy Zane)
    We actually wrote a post about it a few months ago. We're here, we're pissed off, and we write about it. That's sort of what we do. Does the fact that we're bitter somehow soften the blow of the blowhards? No. Sorry we're not sorry. We're also not sorry that there are hundreds of blogs that follow the "Stuff _____ Like" model. We weren't the first. We were like the fifty-sixth. Thanks for calling us a knock off. How does that relate to Jeff Arnold's descent into senility again? Oh right, it doesn't.
    You don't have to like us. We actually don't really care if you do. Because we're not here writing for approval, popularity, validation or facebook likes. We write about something we care about, in order to allocate exposure to ideas and things that would ordinarily go undiscussed.
    So before adding another sophomoric comment asking why we posted this, calling us a stuff whatever likes knock off or thinking you can somehow salvage Jeff Arnold's rep or anything else we write about by calling us bitter or some other name, know that you're accomplishing absolutely nothing.
    Jeff Arnold said what Jeff Arnold said. POA morally failed in covering it up. The UPC continues to disappoint by standing behind him. Your opinion of the authors of this blog changes none of that. Thanks.

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    1. You're an idiot, pun intended. Now hopefully you don't write an article all about this comment. Listen, Glenn, you should read Ephesians 4:31-32, I think there is a message in those verses for you about not being bitter. You have slandered a great Man of God, and God does not take too kindly to those who speak ill against those whom he has called. You wrote this post for one thing, to stir up strife. I'm not on here to help glorify your intentions by slamming you or agreeing with you, but simply to warn you of the next time you even think about speaking against the Man of God. Show respect and forgiveness instead of bitterness and false humility.

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    2. Yes, Bitter. No false humility. He's neither great, nor a man of god. Hes a fucking idiot. Did not write it, Joel did, and goal was accountability, not strife. Again, not a man of god. Also, there's one N, not two. Good day.

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  23. The people who enjoy what Joel and Glen post are here because, frankly, many of us can't articulate our bitterness as well as they can, and bitterness kept pent up can drive you mad (or drive you back . This is like a support group for us. Say what you want about their motives, there is something about this blog that gives me a sense of community and a reassurance that I'm not crazy for thinking and feeling the way I do about the UPC.
    Thanks guys.
    Please don't take such long vacations between posts again.

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    1. Thanks man! We're always up for suggestions. We're both kind of out of that world now so we only have what we remember or hear, and after almost 300 posts we're running out of material. Here's hoping lee stoneking prays for someone to die again.

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    2. Well Said, Anonymous. It's reassuring to know that others are having the scales lifted from their eyes.

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  24. Well, you accurately summed it up. Misery loves company.
    I don't care for JA's preaching. But regardless of the root of your bitterness. Church/daddy/bullies , what you are doing on this site is nothing short of obsessing. You need serious counseling. You think you've cornered the market on hurt and anger ? Most healthy people, Christian or otherwise, move past these things in life. It's actually a requirement if you still consider yourself a Christian at all. If you don't , well then ..
    That's at least a "junior response" ;)

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  25. There's actually things called "The Bully Project," as well as many activist groups, sites, communities for people who have been personally victimized by something. Are they all obsessing? You're right, in life we get past things, but we don't just roll over and let the tormentors continue to torment. We attempt, however feebly, to weaken the strength and voice of those people. We offer a community and a validation to those who were hurt by this movement. Call it obsessing, but there are many victims of this organization who would disagree with you.

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  26. Much like "There's something about a group of believers, a ha, gatha'd togetha, a ha..."

    There's something about a group of people who have been hurt by those believers, gathered together chanting "it's ok, they can't hurt you anymore."

    I like the obsessing. It lets me know Im not crazy. Thanks boys :)

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  27. How is an organization you are no longer associated with ( one full of millions of people that don't know you even exist) "tormenting" you ? If the bullied put this much time and effort into their bully, and hold onto this level of bitterness and anger, then yeah, they are obsessing too. You are only as much of a victim as you allow yourself to be. You've even resorted to attacking those that dont even like JA and believe he was completely out of line. 70X7 man , either you believe it or you don't . Your choice ! Peace to you and I pray God helps you, mean it too. You sincerely need to find peace.

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  28. First - No I dont believe 70x7

    Second - No one is tormenting me currently. I spent years in a toxic organization and it's taking years to deprogram from the mind-eff that goes on there. I want to provide a voice of reason to people who are young and impressionable like I was and let them know it's ok to ask questions, it's ok to have doubts, it's ok to feel uncomfortable in weird, ritualistic situations and most importantly the person you should question the MOST is the one with the microphone behind the pulpit. I don't care how many apo's comment and attempt to belitte me. I don't write for you people. I don't care what you think. I write for the ones looking at you like you're crazy but too scared to say or do anything about it.

    Third - The presumptive assertion that we just devote stacks and stacks of time here in an effort to demean and present us as some basement dwelling, pimple faced, compulsive internet trolls... yeah you couldn't be further off base. We post, what, like once every three months? And when we do we cowrite these now. It takes all of twenty minutes for me to write my half. And then I go back to my awesome life in sunny Southern California. I'm not miserable. I just enjoy giving the organization that robbed me of my youth a giant middle finger from time to time. Sorry not sorry.

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    1. Glen, your awesome. Your also giving me (a 35 year old married woman with teenage kids) a voice too. I was also robbed of my youth, and robbed of a healthy start to my family (it fucks with your mind when you see how this crap brain washed your kids). You both have encouraged me to start a blog to speak from an ex Apo-Pento woman's point of view. Keep writing! There are many more of us, that just don't respond, that read this. Love and hugs to you both.

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    2. Thanks Kari! Please send us the info for your blog!

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  29. There is clearly a great deal of hurt, but the only acceptable response to Jeff Arnold's rant is public acknowledgement and apology (all people commenting on forgiveness, 70x7, etc, please take note that it is difficult to forgive when no one has apologized...and don't give me that "Jesus said forgive them for they know not what they do" jargon or I will ask you to follow your own line of reasoning to conclude everyone's going to heaven since God has decided to hold no one accountable--unless you somehow think you're more forgiving than God? maybe you do...)--if this blog pushes for this NECESSARY apology, I'm all for it. Frankly there need to be more of Scott's dad to counteract Arnold's Sandler, and maybe those who want to keep things hush hush also need to free themselves by apologizing for being complicit (and some clapping, supportive) in not staging some kind of protest to what was happening. For what it's worth, not everyone in the UPCI is ok with this rhetoric, point of view, event or person. I'm not. I want an apology and I won't be satisfied until I get one. (For the Scott's dad reference: http://youtu.be/C_SFevIz1FI)

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    1. I agree. POA or BOTT should apologize in the least. I don't think that JA will.

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    2. I also agree - have never been ok with JA's rants at events and I'm NOT ok with this rhetoric. Whether he used certain words or not, the way he expressed his thoughts and his attitude are not Christlike and do not represent every Apostolic in the UPCI.

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  31. After reading the comments defending JA on YouTube, I was struck by the realization that 5, 6, 7, 10 years ago...that was me. If a UPCI minister said it, then it was gold, Jerry! And God help anyone who said anything critical of the message or the man. Over the last few years, I've seen many start to realize, as Glen put it, how "toxic" the organization is. Not just in their doctrine or in their twisting of God's Word to come up with "standards," but in how they won't allow any dissent. Dialogue is discouraged, and only yes men need apply. My former UPCI church is thankfully run by men who are decent, God-fearing men with hearts for the lost, but they still fall prey to the WAAAAAAY out of context "touch not God's annointed" line if anyone dares to question anything. I think we need to pray for those in leadership to have the their hearts softened, and especially pray for those who want out but have been convinced they'd be leaving God if they left the UPCI. Thanks for the humor and snark you guys provide. I really appreciate it!

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    1. We love this kind of feedback. Thanks for the love! We're not out to destroy the UPC, we'd just love the leadership do adopt a more pragmatic worldview. That's the most immortal thing. I'll feel like I've deprogrammed and then notice some nuance in my worldview or daily interaction and realize Whoa, I do/say that because I was raised in such a backwards subculture. Basic, simple things like keeping work/school relationships limited to acquaintances that are only t at work or school because that's what I did growing up in church. There are just so many things we see in ourselves that when we rectify them we want to point it out to others who may need to see it as well. When we started this blog in 2009 if you'd asked us our goal it would have probably been to implode the UPC. We were immature. Unfortunately those who read this often assume we're just tearing down. We're not doing so maliciously. As I've stated before, sometimes things we build have to fall. The life I built had to be dismantled. I'm rebuilding and I'm loving every brick I lay. Hopefully you're enjoying building your life your way as well. Thanks again. Cheers.

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    2. I find it fascinating that you recognize a tendency in yourself to avoid mixing friendships outside of their social context (i.e. work friends are for work, school friends are for school). I've been bothered for years by the compartmentalization of my life - my friendships, what I share with people, how I open up to people - is very different depending on the context of how I met them.

      Work people only know certain things about me. Church people only know certain things about me. But the relationships where I can be completely transparent with someone about who I am, what I believe, my attitudes, my dreams...are very, very rare. Because church people either wouldn't "get" or "approve" of anything that's not in keeping with the traditions or expectations of the church.

      Meanwhile, I can't fully open up to people at work about my life, because how in the world do you explain to someone this culture we grew up in? It's so completely foreign to them. I'm not talking about "sharing the Good News." I'm talking about this bizarre social construct and lifestyle expectations that are completely outside the lines of anything you could point out explicitly in Scripture. I'm talking about them not understanding that if you went to every single activity that could possibly be expected of you "in the church," you'd be at church 6 days per week some weeks. 6 out of 7 days.

      I've heard it taught that you cannot have any healthy relationships outside of the church. That people "in the world" will "use you and abuse you." I've found this no more or less true than people in the church. Yes, I know good, kind-hearted people in the church. But I also know good, kind-hearted people "in the world." Yet, I continue to find myself surprised by how great some of my nonchurch friends can be (when I do rarely let them in).

      I'd wondered if there was something abnormal about my struggle with relationships and compartmentalization - do I need to see a shrink? And the answer might be yes. But it's nice to know I'm not the only one who's experienced this result from growing up in the pseudo-cloistered lifestyle we call "the church."

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    3. thanks for the seinfeld reference, blackjohnwhite. you made re-visiting the comment section on this post almost a month later worth it.

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    4. My pleasure, Anonymous Feb 24. =)

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  32. @Real

    I actually have been thinking about doing a post about this, I just haven't had time. I liked the phrase "compartmentalizing of my life."
    I think it's the most succinct way to describe what we were, sort of, indoctrinated to do. By the 7th grade I was so fearful that the temptations that I felt as a young teen, and exposed to at school, would be 'too much' and I would cave in. My deflecting the temptations for 'worldly things', like sports/dances/anything social, was predicated on the thought that there was danger there. AT THIRTEEN. That's how I lived my life from that point until my early twenties. You train yourself. It becomes innate in your daily interactions. Friendly but not friends. They're acquaintances. Wanna bible study? Nope? Well nice talkin to ya. And now I work with great people with whom I spend copious amounts of time with. And it's taken years of getting to know various people, while living outside of that very abstract social context, to get to the point where they were real, valued relationships not predicated on church. So many of my friends, who I love but are the only people I can feel genuinely 'close' to are former apostolics like me. It's amazing and reassuring and special. But sometimes I worry that I've stunted the ability to truly open up and get close with people, regardless of whether they have some connection to a weird, blustery, masochistic upbringing. But I'm just a backslidden, postmodern existential Generation Y (once called the worst.generation.ever.) anonymous guy on the internet. What the hell do I know?

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  33. All you that posted anonymously, you guys are a bunch of cowards and don't deserve the time of day!!!!
    All you that are slam dunking Pastor Arnold, who has been my Pastor for over 32 years, do not have one tiny clue of what Pastor Arnold is all about, and your Judging of him will bite you in the buttocks one day!!!!

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    1. I expect nothing less than threats from someone who follows that charlatan.

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    2. "By your fruits you shall know them." We only have his words that we hear to judge. The words we hear are harsh, insulting, demeaning, self righteous and opposite what I see when I read the words of Christ.

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    3. #StockholmSyndrom

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  34. I grew up UPC. My wife is a pastor's daughter. I was under a controlling, manipulative pastor who used the concept of "submission" to get what they want. And "blackjohnwhite" NAILED the "touch not mine anointed" comment (so ironic when you consider David wrote about REAL enemies who actually wanted to kill him, prophets and the children of Israel). It's also interesting that for the most part, the UPC is the modern day Pharisee, you focus so much on the outside that you forgot Jesus came to fulfill the law. Your standards of 'holiness' ain't got a thing on the OT law. And btw, why don't you read the Word objectively and realize that the topic of holiness in both the new and old testaments have very LITTLE to do with standards of dress but rather a condition of the heart and a life focused on pleasing Him in your actions, words and thoughts. Maybe if you stopped focusing on what people are wearing and tried to spread the REAL gospel, your churches would grow (80% of them are not growing). I have been away from the church for about 4 years now due to finally having enough of the manipulation and false interpretation. It led to me to question all of the wonderful things I knew about God. I became atheist and then agnostic. It has only been in the past few months, after years of studying science and various faiths, that I came to the conclusion using my brain (not a feeling) that the world and Universe definitely had a designer. And later on concluded that the God of the Bible is that designer. God has beautifully ministered to me and restored my Spirit in a REAL way. I can tell you the power of the Spirit of God can heal! Many of you are bitter and angry (my wife and I are still in the healing process), but seek God and you will find Him. You can break free of the LIE and the BONDAGE that the UPC has a monopoly on 'truth' and on the identity of Jesus. If you haven't been in the UPC, that last line sounds mind-boggingly obvious to you...but if you have been in it, you know what I'm talking about. I pray everyone who has been hurt and is bitter would be healed. Don't let your spiritual abusers reign victorious over your life! I promise you, they are not even thinking about you, and if they are it's as a "backslider" (just like me). God bless you all.
    As for Jeff Arnold, I need not give my own opinion. Paraphrasing - "Whosoever calls his brother 'raca' is in danger of the council and whoever says "you fool!" is in danger of hell fire". Is Arnold above the words of Christ? As for his hateful language towards gays...it's simply the furthest thing from love. How does that help bring a gay person to Christ? I think many in the UPC have forgotten that God WANTS people to go to heaven.
    As for what @real wrote - spot on. My wife wasn't allowed to have ANY friends unless they wanted to go to church with her and is still acclimating to basic social life in this world as she was home schooled to keep her from 'evil' as well.

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  35. Jeff Arnold is not called to pastor the Pentecostal church.
    I believe he will receive a sign from god to nurture his ministry to all truth which is guided by the spirit
    Jeff Arnold isnt a prosperity pimp like UPC is turning into.
    There will be those who hear & those who will listen.
    do you think those who hear the word of god will make in into those gates?
    or will it be the ones who listen to the word of salvation
    Those that are in the covenant with god are they ones chosen first in this world they will know who they are in christ before his coming
    I have received the holy ghost when i was 7 years old with the significance of speaking in tongues i got baptized in the name of Jesus giving power to my resurrection to the spirit.
    i have been in Pentecostal churches and Apostolic churches witnessed and seen the glory of god's presence.
    We have all fallen short. With the mind of Christ he will let you know what you should believe in because gods word does not come back void. our opinionated minds wont get us to heaven neither will your neighbors comfort of security of pleasure. Jeff Arnold isn't some punk. he came out the ghetto from chains n curses that was broken for his testimony for other to be saved. even Jesus called out spirits n pharisees . i search out and test the spirits for whole truth. our mouthpiece is the way god uses us. whether you think its good or bad. everything has a purpose.

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    1. What. The hell. Was that?

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  36. The reality is that this blog is likely written because scoffers look for any means to justify their way out of rules in order to life by their own lusts.

    I grew up in church as a pastor's kid, and the only reason I haven't left the church like half PK's do is because I never grew up with the expectations that I see here.

    Just because a man preaches from the pulpit, doesn't mean he is perfect. That "understanding" is ridiculous to live by and impossible for any man to uphold. Some of you seem to believe this hence this blog.

    Jeff Arnold is an old man who comes from a crazy, outlandish background, and you all expect perfection out of him? You know how some men become as they get older. Should we discount his entire ministry?
    Plus, who misquoted here: Did he really say what you wrote in your blog or is it as another writes "this is not about we have a black man in the white house and white people are in the field. That's stupid. You need to get that junk out of your head. This is about the word of God…"

    If the UPC organization and it's preachers really agree with racism, then they would preach it consistently. We are not a racist organization. Is that really what you are professing here? Really? That is a lie and this blog is out to tear down the kingdom of God-- although you'll never win.

    Also, are you upset that he uses the word f*g or that he preaches against homosexuality? Sure there are more civil ways of preaching that message, but what exactly is your stand on homosexuality…

    What purpose does this blog serve other than to sow discord, and cause confusion among those who aren't rooted in their walk. You should use your gift of writing to build the kingdom of God.

    Anyway, if I based my faith on the actions of others, I'd be out a LONG time ago. I am founded on the bible, my personal walk with God and the refraining from secular influences like music, tv…etc. You all can pick out flaws in every preacher you'd like, but at the end of the day we'll all stand before God and be acceptable for our actions. Let's work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

    13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


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    1. I'm only going to reply to one thing you said, because the rest I really don't care about, and it's been addressed in countless comments so feel free to go back and dig through.

      "What purpose does this blog serve other than to sow discord, and cause confusion among those who aren't rooted in their walk. You should use your gift of writing to build the kingdom of God. "

      This has also been stated, but I will say it again.

      As a member of the church you view us as rebels who have been turned over to a reprobate mind, so I don't think any of our motives would satisfy you. But, as we see it, we, and many of our friends, were subjected to cruel, masochistic, misogynistic, heretical teaching under the guise of "the word of god." We've seen growth stunted, youthful exuberance and curiosity robbed, families ripped apart and on and on. The purpose of this blog is to bring accountability to those who claim to speak for god. We've been personally, directly and indirectly hurt by this, and worse, we've watched our friends and families be chewed up and spat out by something we not only believe to be not of god, but straight evil. So, judge us all you want, we don't care. We exist to encourage people to ask questions, even though they've been told never to do so. We seek to unite those with questions and doubts who are too afraid to speak up. And we exist to bring public criticism to those who have managed to quell criticisms in their church by way of brow beating and fear mongering. The read faced, hyperbolic threats of hell don't scare us because the men slinging those threats are most certainly the ones headed straight for it, if there even is one.

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  37. I know I'm a little late to the party here, but I just wanted to say that I love your writing style. Also, very interesting topic. Jeff Arnold is a loose cannon and a liability to the UPC. I certainly hope, for everyone's sake, he is not invited to speak publicly (save his own church, which ppl presumably attend willingly) again.

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  38. A lot of ministers have had problems with Arnold going back a long time. The UPC has a far less formal process for ordination than most church organizations which makes it more democratic but also more open to charismatic but manipulative people. Part of me would like to say people like Mr. Arnold are better ignored but at the same time if this post decreases his influence I am in favor.

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  39. Ok, I love Jeff Arnold's style and his street talk. He ministers to a certain type of people and refined and dignified preachers don't reach all types. I was drawn to the church because I got to see through Jeff Arnold that I didn't have to be perfect and that someone like me who said the F word every other sentence could still come to God. It's just funny what people are appalled at hahahaaa you like Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Beyonce, R rated movies full of sex scenes and pervasive language, but throw this man out because he said idiot to someone you don't even believe in yourself? You pass judgment on the only people who uphold the name of Jesus while the rest of the denominations call them heritics and cults for doing the same thing that Peter, James, John, Paul did? Baptizing in the name of Jesus and speaking in tongues? hahaha liberal/athiests new agers or whatever you call yourselves are hilarious.... why do you even care what they do if you aren't a part of the UPC? Don't you have something to do like helping drug addicts, homeless people, single mothers, orphaned children? That's what we're doing and you want to find "something" to criticize? You'll have to do better than pulling out a Jeff Arnold sermon-I've got too much to do to worry about that trivial junk....

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  40. Meant to say "the denominations call them *heretics"

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  41. He was joking about aspiring to be one of Gods greatest preacher. I know this man is anointed because i took the time to watch a lot of his sermons. But if he did say those things, he is only human like the rest of us. And maybe he wasn't trying to insult but make up for the lack of backbone in calling out people justifying sin in the church. But,anyway, if you think he is being nasty then you are no better because you go on calling him senile. Do as you do unto others what you want them to do to you. Then you want to stereotype apostolic people be like they like this. Go bully someone else. I don't blog about the pope. So whoever wrote this, go find something better to do than judge ministers.

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  42. "He was joking about aspiring to be one of Gods greatest preacher."

    And you know this how? You can discern intent?

    "I know this man is anointed because i took the time to watch a lot of his sermons."

    I know 9/11 was an inside job, we never landed on the moon and Sandy Hook was a False Flag because I took the time to watch Youtube videos.

    "But if he did say those things, he is only human like the rest of us."

    Perfectly valid excuse for publicly berating people and calling the leader of the free world a faggot.

    "Then you want to stereotype apostolic people be like they like this."

    It's not a stereotype when it's true.

    "Go bully someone else."

    No. It's more fun to bully bullies.

    "So whoever wrote this, go find something better to do than judge ministers."

    At the moment it's just too entertaining.



    PS I heard Karma came to visit recently... Hmm.

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  43. jeff arnold is hood. if you grew up a snotty nosed child in the church youve never had the experiences that he has had in his former life before repenting . he can see through all of your worldly and spiritual bullshit. so he has names and titles he uses in his vocabulary to call your punk ass out for actin a fool. this blog was to talk shit all of you are wack. heres a verse for you bitches. Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

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  44. Jeff Arnold is a man of God. In one sermon, he was blessed by the men of God with a $100,000 offering to bless his church. He gives millions to missions. He loves the saints of GAINESVILLE And StandS With them. I love him and his ministry and would be scared to death to put my mouth on a man who preached truth to me, Pastored me, and was raised from the dead. I bet you if you needed prayer he'd be a legit man of God for you to call on. Out of all the years I've been blessed to sit under his ministry and preaching, I've never felt like he didn't love me or my family, even when I made mistakes. I still serve God I think he is still the best preacher and Pastor I've been blessed to have. He might have said some things wrong, but he's still called of God and has served UPC for many years. I stand with this man of God, and pray that God continues to bless and restore him. Please join me in doing the same.

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