Tuesday, October 9, 2012

#263- Making a Commotion @ General Conference

For those of you who don't know what this is, it's called a Meme. Memes started as pictures in chain email forwards that you used to send directly to your trash bin without opening them. It's a descendent of the early internet humor of the nineties. Think of The Dancing Baby or The Hampster Dance. These were the progenitors of memes.

Basically, what a meme is is this: internet humor that not a lot of people get. The ones who do 'get' can sit on websites like 4chan or 9gag and scroll for hours, laughing incessantly and never getting bored, no matter how stupid, random, abstract or completely senseless the stuff they're looking at is. The ones who don't 'get it' just roll their eyes when they see it, and click onto the next thing.

There is no sense to a meme. It's like an inside joke that all you have to do to get on the inside of is say you get it, and boom, you're in.

"It's so funny!"
"But why is it funny?"
"Oh, you either get it or you don't. I couldn't possibly explain it to you."

About the UPC Meme

Allow me to introduce you to a list of characters. Your task is to figure out what they all have in common:

  • The guy most likely to use a prank handshake buzzer at a funeral. 
  • Possible kamikaze pilot in a past life. 
  • All-too-happy-that-you're-here Wal-Mart greeter. 
  • Semi-Pro Paintball player. 
  • Your Aunt Mildred.
  • Retired Auto-worker who has had it up to here with anyone who does not buy American. 
  • Aging mayor whose one goal now in life is your approval and your vote. Or....
  • On halloween night, he is the one guy who leaves Free Candy on his porch with the house lights off making it seem like he's gone for the evening, but lo and behold he was hiding in a bush the whole time and wouldn't you know it, he has a live chainsaw and is chasing the unsuspecting innocent children, but "don't worry mom and dad, there's no chain on the chain saw so it's safe!" And the kids are left in tears and half heart attacks, and are so worked up they just can't bring themselves to go onto another house free candy or not.... and all of this because the guy with the chainsaw likes watching kids cry.

So what do all of these have in common? If you answered that all of the above are possible analogies for Jeff Arnold's preaching persona, then you win. If you were wrong, well maybe next time. Because as a UPC meme, Jeff Arnold can be all of the above and more when he's preaching.

As for Jeff Arnold's sermons.... you will laugh. You will clap. You will become disoriented, but in a good way. This is because listening to a Jeff Arnold sermon is kinda like being on a tilt-a-whirl ride that has spun off the track. There is no way to tell where you are or where you'll end up, and the scariest part is you can't recall how you even got on the tilt-a-whirl in the first place. 

Other things you may encounter in a Jeff Arnold sermon:

  • Someone will find a lit firecracker in their pant pocket two seconds too late. The firecracker will ignite leaving a slightly blush-worthy hole in the victim's pants. Everyone there will laugh including the victim. They will say "Oh Bro. Arnold" and he'll have his hands up and say "Hey folks, it wasn't me" in a serious tone... but then with impeccable comedic timing, he'll break his stare and say "Naw I'm just playing.... It was me." And he'll laugh and the audience will laugh harder and then he'll give a noogie to the victim with the huge hole in his pants and the victim will smile as if he is the lucky one.
  • You will hear Jeff Arnold say the word "Shenanigans" in all seriousness and without irony.
  • You will see Jeff Arnold do what can only be described as The Geriatric Douggie, in which he will shuffle around the stage to a beat played by God that only Jeff Arnold can here. Whilst doing The Geriatric Douggie Jeff Arnold will tell you to get off your 'fanny' and dance, because if he and his robo-hips can gyrate then yours should too, you young whipper snapper.
  • You will hear Jeff Arnold rip into conservatives at conservative churches because he's Jeff Arnold and he's called by God. He will then rip into liberals at liberal churches because he's a licensed UPC minister. And at the end of the day he'll he walk past you with his suit over his shoulder and give you a finger point and a wink and he'll say "now that's how you play ball son." And you'll know right then that he's completely in control of the situation no matter how much his preaching style reminds you of  a circus-tent on fire during a circus' grand finale
Before recently, I had always thought Jeff Arnold a meme for the UPC. Like a meme, my only knowledge of him or his sermons came through the virtual world of the internet or preaching tapes. From what I saw, he seemed like a kind of inside joke meme that we hollered at in support, but always with a wink, a giggle, and an elbow-nudge to let everyone know that we don't take him too seriously, like he's comic relief. Sure he said some witty statements to tweet here and there, but it was just enough Truth to allow the show to go on lest we be accused of allowing church to decay into a one-hour stand-up comedy act.

The question in my mind was whether or not Jeff Arnold himself was serious or was voluntarily just playing the part of UPC class clown?

But then you hear that he says stuff like this...

(Please Note:  Typing the sermon words out to accompany the sermon and adding intense-Batman themed music cannot save the quote from it's comedy/bigotry/stupidity).

Jeff Arnold's witnessing abilities are flawless. And by flawless, I mean pathetic to someone who knows a homosexual or is one. Nothing says "Jesus loves you" like "fag/twinkie/queer!" Apparently he does this kind of thing all the time.

Which if you missed it, according to Jeff Arnold, since I'm an advocate of gay rights, I'm either a "Fag," "a twinkie," or "a queer." Note: I'm heterosexual. But Arnold's inference is that only a fag/twinkie/queer would actually care about gay rights...

Not to mention that parts of this clip were beginning to eerily remind of a minute long segment in the film version of The Wall: http://youtu.be/IoPpw7DNzCY

Or maybe I'm taking Jeff Arnold way too seriously....and who cares if he's said such things many other times before?

"Which let's be honest. That whole queer/fag quote...well it's Jeff being Jeff right? It's what he does. He says bold things. Some of them silly, some of them true. And along the way you are bound to get some bigotry mixed in. It's part of the price I guess.... he's from the South and all... it's not that big of a deal. You should cut him some slack...."

And truth be told I was. Glen had told me about this stuff for a while, but I just said that it's "Jeff's gig." He's there to shock and to get laughs and to get us to pray a little and by the end of the night hopefully we'll be able to say the Lord was there and a time was had.

And Glen warned me that his preaching at General Conference was a cause for concern.

I didn't listen.....

Here is the sequential logic of the above clip:

1. Jeff Arnold likes puns.
2. Jeff Arnold has a Word from the Lord
3. Jeff Arnold declares Jeroboam an idiot and a fool.
4. Jeff Arnold reveals that Jeroboam birthed a spirit named after him and the spirit is sweeping the nation.
5. Jeff Arnold lets us in on the Spirit of Jeroboam's platform: Pro-Tolerance
6. Jeff Arnold reminds us that we sometimes have to confront things regarding holiness. We must contend with the faith.
7. Jeff Arnold exceptionally paraphrases the people who are under the influence of the Spirit of Jeroboam. AKA "The Pro-Tolerance" preachers.
8. Jeff Arnold announces that "that's not legalism. That's life."
9. Jeff Arnold has a loud voice and he'll use it if he has to.
10. Jeff Arnold quotes Jesus telling us that He will give us life and life more abundantly.1
11. Jeff Arnold declares there is nothing wrong with modesty, sacrifice, formality, or separation.2
12. Jeff Arnold sings "When I think of his goodness and what he's done for me."
13. Jeff Arnold doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
14. Jeff Arnold is 68 years old.
15. Jeff Arnold does not have real hips.
16. Jeff Arnold is the original Mr. T.
17. Jeff Arnold announces he is a robot.
18. Jeff Arnold demonstrates that robots can dance.
19. Jeff Arnold wants to know what your problem is.
20. Jeff Arnold does not like non-emotional people.
21. Jeff Arnold thinks you are a liar.
22. Jeff Arnold wants you to be just as somber and quiet and unemotional when you catch a 5 pound bass fish as you are somber and unemotional in church.
23. Jeff Arnold thinks you need to do something.
24. Jeff Arnold wants you to get happy.

Glen's less rigorous, more honest interpretation of the above clip:
"I can't even tell what he's getting at. The last time I heard him preach he was all over the place, dropping 'zingers' and one liners. Back in the day he was a great speaker, but I think he's reliant on the whole 'Oh no he di'int" candor he was known for in the nineties and he just isn't shocking anymore. Oh you called someone a twinkle toes or a faggot and then shuffled around and said we should get off our "fannies" and dance? Don't push that envelope too far, you'll get a paper cut."


1. Note the bait & switch argument here. Talk about one thing (holiness) and back up the talk by talking about one of those Christian buzzwords that will get everyone worked up. Next, hope everyone is too rowdy to notice the shoddy logic that acts like "Life and life more abundantly" has anything to do with confronting and challenging "tolerance."

2. The inference here being that the "pro-tolerance" camp say that modesty, sacrifice, formality, or separation is a bad thing. (Which is so not true that even the angels are scratching his head over this one. Except for formalities. I personally don't care for formalities. But nor does God: He's the one who made Adam and Eve naked and turned water into wine and called a woman a dog ). Plus, irony here: Arnold upholding "formalities?" That's like Republicans supporting NPR.

3.  Another quote from later on in the evening: "So you think I'm a legalist? If I am a legalist then my Father is a legalist. It was He who said "Get out of my garden and put some clothes on."*

*God never said this*                                                                                                                                                                                            

So there you have it. We can chalk up the above logic to being orchestrated by the power of the Holy Spirit which apparently works in the same discontinuous, shoot-from-the-hip style similar to the way we imagine a 2 year old would attempt to spell "White Mans Paranoia" off the top of his head with a set of scrabble letters.

And maybe in the chaos we'll get a meme.

So ask yourself,  what kind of meme your'd prefer? One that says fag as if it was authorized by God himself...

Or a meme that also makes little-to no sense but will also never call you a fag since this kind of meme is a dog barking into a phone with a look of horror hoping to God that it it's not Jeff Arnold calling him on the other end of that phone line asking him why he doesn't dance in church.


  1. Although this is only a clip of a longer sermon, I've heard many entire sermons preached in this manner by many different preachers.

    They had no main idea, and no organized content. They consisted of often disconnected statements designed to make people shout. This why out of all the thousands of sermons I sat through at camps and conventions as a teen, I can remember two. At some point I decided to stop shouting at such things, for fear I'd end up looking like a German at a political rally in 1939.

    I will say though, that of the two sermons I do remember, one was a camp sermon where the camp preacher came in and told the audience there would be no shouting tonight, and proceeded to teach a well-planned message that stuck to one topic. That message has been useful for me often over the years, and was more valuable than all the rest.

  2. As far back as I can remember he was doing this. Even when I bought into all the right wing fanaticism I still couldn't get with the epithets. Maybe it's because my dad and my pastor were always vehemently opposed to them. They both believed homosexuality was a sin, but they would never call someone a 'fag'. I'm grateful that they taught me respect.
    As for his general preaching persona I stick with what Joel quoted, and echo SittingSilent. He's erratic. He's frivolous. At least Stoneking sticks with a general thought, wrong as it may be.
    I really do feel like two things are happening here-
    1. He's just old. We're watching his mind fall apart. He's like the Pentecostal Charlie Sheen, except his tiger blood is 'anointing' and his adonis DNA is his celebrity status. He's just melting down.
    2. He figured out his brand. He's become self aware. He knows what people come to see and he's like a broke down crooner who takes a gig in Vegas turning out the same schtick he did 20 years ago and the same nostalgic people come to see him as a novelty. He takes a random scripture, does his intro from it and spends the next 30-50 minutes peppering the audience with 'fag/queer/twinkie', calls to get off their fannies or rear ends and dance because he's old and he can, claims of how bold he is and doesn't care for or need your approval to 'tell it like it is', claims that the powers that be are afraid of him because 'they don't know what he'll say (except that they do bc he's been reading from the same script for 20 years), and a lot of asserting his position of authority over everyone in attendance.

    It was all so shocking then, but it's all so quaint now. He couldn't possibly pander any harder.

    And SittingSilent - I love your comment. It reminded me of one of the last times I went to Senior High Camp. Wayne Francis preached a message using Jackie Chan's 'The Drunken Master' as his illustration. The whole point was that in the movie the more drunk the guy got the better fighter he was, so we should all get drunk on the holy ghost because we'll be stronger, or some made up nonsense like that. I didn't get it then, I don't get it now, and I don't understand how and why there's so much credulity in the movement and how they don't realize that these guys are just taking advantage of it. It's just gotten sad.

    1. Glen, I appreciate your wit, but you are fairly overbearing with your criticism.

      I do have to preface my comment with the fact that I have only been able to hear him live a small number of times, so my thoughts are based off 4-5 live and a number of recorded sermons.

      I never thought "his mind is falling apart". for starters, there is a flow to his speaking. it is a bit scattered, but I do that myself and he does have a main topic or thread that is fairly consistant.

      As far as his "brand"? Does he even sell any tapes or cds of his own? I've never seen any outside of his home church or people who organize at places he preaches. Also, he is who he is. what is wrong with being yourself?

      Lastly, I don't consider preaching as pandering...


    2. His brand as in his UPC celebrity status. His persona. Yes he sells books, tapes and CD's. I've heard him several times in my life and every time is the same, but as he's aged it's gotten more scattered, more incoherent and more reliant on one liners, puns and the like. I don't literally think he's slipping into dementia, my comment was somewhat exaggerated to make a point - he's aging and it shows in his lack of cohesion when speaking. His topics are usually overly simple, he spends a few short minutes on them and launches into the circus act. And preaching can be pandering when you're paid to do it, and you're treated as a celebrity for adopting some sort of persona that sets yourself apart from other preachers. This is all just my opinion, I don't state it as fact, it's simply an opinion.

    3. Also - preachers often pander to elicit a response. It's not even always thought out, it just sneaks in. If a sermon isn't going over there's always a few things you can throw in to excite certain excitable people. That's pandering, and he does it by continually throwing in the same one liners to excite the same people or type of people. That's called pandering.

  3. I've rarely heard a single bit of Jeff Arnold's preaching except for the experts posted here - and once when his preaching was forced upon me via VHS at someones house once, because they just loved him and that he "told it like it was" Even then, 10 years ago, I had a bad feeling about this guy. I couldn't figure out why "telling it like it is" had to include slurs.

    Calling him a "Pentecostal Charlie Sheen" made me laugh out loud - kudos!

  4. 1 Chronicles 16:21-22 21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,

    22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

    Being that you all claim to Christians and can quote the bible with the best I do not think the verse above should even need to be mentioned, I would have hoped that you would have remembered that while you posted a outrageous post about a Man of God. Do you need to like Brother Arnold? no! Do you need to agree with him? No! Do you need to respect the man of God and the position he holds, YES.

  5. He is no prophet. He is a man. You recognize him in a symbolic-fictional world that the New Testament church would not even lend credit to. Our high priest is in heaven offering sacrifices for us continually according to Hebrews. Our High priest is the Spirit that lives in all of us. Our High Priest will never tolerate bigotry and hate and intolerance like the one that man is promoting, no matter how much Jeff Arnold can make you dance or cry in church.

    To allow that man the title of "prophet" is no different than allowing an image of God be confused as God Himself. Please reconsider the cross before you subscribe old testament fallacies about not "touching the Lord's anointed."

    Because I haven't touched the man. I've only seen his video's on youtube. And the Holy Spirit tells me that Jeff Arnold's spirit and mentality is icky.

    I am fervent about this. I am uncompromising.

    1. This could be a blog post if it its not already? Stuck on my phone so I can't search


  6. Jesus referred to the Scribes and Pharisees as "hypocrites," "serpents," "brood of vipers." He described them as "full of extortion and self-indulgence," "full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." He said that they, "devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers." He was intolerant of those who rejected Him after seeing His miracles, "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you" (Matthew 11:21-22). Jesus was intolerant of those who set aside God’s law to follow human tradition (Matt. 15:3-9). He did not tolerate "false christs" and "false prophets" (Matthew 24:24). He told the Sadducees that they were "mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29).


  7. Personally, when he started using insulting words he ceased to be a Man of God in my view. The Men of God in my life don't speak this way. They're loving and compassionate and though they believe things to be sinful, they'd never insult the person sinning. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but in my personal scope Jeff Arnold is not a man of god. No amount good sermons, converts, and good altar calls excuses someone from being a bigot and a hate spewer. Again, this is my personal opinion, but you don't get to say whatever you want, to whomever you want and hide behind the title 'Man of God'.
    You don't get to point to deaf people at a campground and insult them by telling them the ministry created to include them was born out of a lack of faith because 'Jesus would heal them if He were here,' and call yourself a man of God. As Joel stated, that scripture is used out of context to defend men who aren't what they say they are. Just because you hold a microphone and quote scripture does not make you a man of God. Being a man of God makes you a man of God and no respected man of God has ever gotten in front of a microphone and called people faggots. Jeff Arnold is not a man of God.

    1. 'Jeff Arnold is not a man of God'???

      'Being a man of God makes you a man of God and no respected man of God has ever...'??? And who are you, Mr. Glen McGee, to make that call? I thought He's our judge?

      I could go with judge not lest you be judged. I could. But I'll stick with "Don't push that envelope too far, you'll get a paper cut."

    2. 1 Timothy 3:2-10 Now the overseer is to be ABOVE REPROACH, faithful to his wife, TEMPERATE, SELF-CONTROLLED, RESPECTABLE, HOSPITABLE, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, NOT VIOLOENT BUT GENTLE, NOT QUARRELSOME, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 HE MUST ALSO HAVE A GOOD REPUTATION WITH OUTSIDERS, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

      This is just a portion of what it takes to be a man of God and the aspects in caps are aspects that Jeff Arnold doesn't embody. He's quarrelsome, he's not temperate, he doesn't have self control, and if anyone outside our little culture heard the vitriol he throws around he wouldn't have a good reputation either. (I do believe you can preach against homosexuality, but in love and in accordance with scripture, not with epithets. My good friend, and antithesis, is a youth pastor who believes homosexuality is a sin, but he works with a few gay men and he's friends with them. They know what he does, they know what he believes, he doesn't hide it, but he balances his views with love. And yes, he does witness to them and talk about God, and maintains their respect. I'm sure calling them fags and twinkies would be effective too though...)

      I'll put it to you like this - if Jeff Arnold wasn't 68 years old and well known... Put him at 23 and fresh out of bible college. If that young evangelist, without a well known name, came to a church and called people faggots, called them lazy, belittled their Sign Language Ministry, and was rude and crude he'd be blacklisted and wouldn't get too many more preaching invitations. We defend Jeff Arnold because of who he is, and we forget the harmfulness of what he says.

      I've heard people dismiss the things listed in Timothy because they like someone or they're popular. Preachers who's wives have left them, their kids are backslidden and their finances a wreck go on to preach, not being held accountable to the criteria of a minister because "well come on, no one's perfect right?" Except when your average church musician or staff member has an indiscretion or breaks a standard they're seated from their ministries, and off the platform (which is the equivalent of public shaming), but when preachers don't live up to THEIR criteria it's overlooked because we're DOWN here and they're UP there and we are supposedly not in a position to call this out (except we are, and the scriptures used not to are taken out of context and misapplied).

      They're free to use out of context, mistranslated, inapplicable Mosaic Law to subjugate women but when there's a new testament list of what they're supposed to be 'come on man, that was written like 2,000 years ago bro.'

      Jeff Arnold is not above reproach, he isn't above scripture and he isn't above you or I. I'm not 'judging' based on some made up list in my head, it's the bible. And I will not accept that the individuals in congregations should be held to a higher standard than the men who are supposed to be overseeing them. Jeff Arnold doesn't live up to the standards your every day Christian is supposed to, much less that of 'a man of God'.

    3. Regardless if it is a list in your head or scripture from the bible. ..you are still judging him. And I think there is bible for that, too. I am uncomfortable when people take it upon themselves to question the calling placed on another man’s life. It’s not our place at all. . . .whether we agree with someone being called or not. Maybe instead of spouting a bunch of reasons why you think Bro. Arnold is not a ‘man of God’, you should instead pray and let God handle him. I do believe that is HIS job

    4. I understand and respect your opinion, Rachel, but I just have a different one. (btw thank you for being civil, as I was expecting to be vilified. Polite discourse can go a long way)
      I believe, and I believe biblical principles are behing this but I could very well be wrong, that when you stand up in front of people and claim to speak for God then you are inviting people to interpret what you say and weigh it against scripture. Fortunately now, with the advent of social media and the mass-high speed human interaction, messages are to a broader audience. Preachers sermons don't stop with the people in the room, they spread to thousands. Because of that, more of us who here are able and, I think, responsible, to listen, weigh and make commentary on what we've heard. It's not ancient times anymore and the idea that saying you have a calling or speak for God exempts you from criticism, reproach, or rebuke if you act irresponsibly is absurd. This is a man who enters a public forum, proclaims to speak for God, and while doing so uses what I and most of America deem to be profanity, and insults. He tells deaf people they don't have faith, he tells you if you don't 'dance' then you're a carnal lazy sinner and you have a problem. If he speaks in the public sphere then his criticism will come in the public sphere.
      I understand where you're coming from in your assessment but please understand that that is based in an archaic way of living and thinking. That is not the world we live in and the bible doesn't endorse it. If you want to be in the public eye and ear that's fine, but those you speak to can, and will speak back and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The view that they can't is totalitarianism and almost even imperialism.

    5. :-) No problem. I am not trying to be purposely argumentative, we just disagree is all. I am not defending Bro Arnold, or his choice of words by any means. And I am also not saying that we can't 'speak back' to what he is saying, and voice our disagreement with him. I just personally feel that we can disagree with ministers in the apostolic movement, and still be respectful while doing it. And I strongly believe no one has any right to flat out say that a minister is not called by God, and therefore not a man of God. Trust me, there are other ministers in the UPC that I do not care for and have issues with things they do/say, but I would never be so bold as to say that they are not called men of God. Because I believe the calling of ministers is God's territory, and His alone. I just felt you were delving into an area that I don't think any man can delve into. You bring up some interesting points. I still disagree with you, though. But it's all good ;-)

    6. Great reply Rach. This is the type of polite discourse I think can be healthy in the movement as a whole.
      As far as saying he's not a called man of God - I believe he is called, and has done good things in his ministry in the past. It's not the calling I question, I just think he started going off the rails in the late nineties and has completely fallen off since then. A lot probably has to do with aging. I don't mean to disrespect him as a person, or say he was never called, I just think he became a successful pastor and his ego wasn't checked, and his rhetoric has grown exponentially harmful. Similar to Stoneking actually - Stoneking started out good, did a lot of good in ministry, but as of the last few years he's latched onto, what I believe is, a heretical doctrine that now defines him. I absolutely believe he was called and had a great ministry in days past. It's like Saul - he was called, and he was great, but he went awry eventually. A negative term I heard growing up was 'once saved always saved.' I think this falls onto similar ground. A minister may have a great calling and ministry on their lives, but that doesn't necessarily mean everything they ever do is ordained by God and that they can't ever merge onto the wrong path.
      I don't think everything the man has ever done is wrong, and I believe he was a man of God, but I simply don't believe he's preaching Gods word anymore, he's preaching his own thoughts, opinions and emotions, crudely, and thus is currently undeserving of the title.

      Thanks for being cool!

  8. Also, I've heard him say, when using these quips, that he's just "telling it like it is" and "he doesn't care if people get mad at him for it."
    That's not 'telling it like it is.' If he wants to talk about a lost and dying world I'm ok with that. If he wants to talk about the demoralization of society and culture, and be descriptive I'm ok with that. John the Baptist was a blunt speaker in regards to the religious piety of the day, NOT the sinful. He didn't call those not living for God a brood of vipers, he reserved that for the pharisee's. Does anyone honestly believe if Jesus were around today he'd say "Woe to the faggots," or if John the Baptist were here he'd say "All these queers need to get out?" He absolutely would not. He'd be looking at people like Jeff Arnold saying "What do you think you're doing?"
    Jeff Arnold is no John The Baptist. His 'telling it like it is' schtick does not excuse his hate mongering. The scripture 'touch not mine anointed' is misapplied when dealing with preachers, and is not a shield to hide behind after saying horribly offensive things. And lastly, maybe I'm misapplying this, and Joel - correct me if I'm wrong, but Matthew 5:22 says call a man a fool and you're in danger of hell. I'm no scholar or theologian but my interpretation of that isn't that if you call someone a fool you're hell bound but idiot and jerk are ok - it's putting a principle in place that we should not be speaking to or about one another using insults and harmful words. Fag and faggot are as harmful a word as the n-word and no one who uses it is worthy of an ounce of respect, much less the title 'man of God.'

    1. Only one perfect man walked this earth without sin or blemish....but because of the fulfillment of Jesus purpose...It is he who opens the door and purifies and it is he who uses us..the filthy and unrighteous....God calls upon to anoint "Man"..to carry out words to draw us to him....but we are "men"...anointed "men" walking..with God ...and if you ask me the anointing is undeniable... Bro. Arnold. He is an anointed "Man" like you my friend. Lets resist the devil and encourage every when to come up a little higher. -Bro Trey Moore

    2. Having flaws is no excuse to spew hate. Hate is never anointed and no one throwing insults and pejoratives is doing so under the anointing. Stop excusing people because they preach good or sing good. The man uses words like "faggot" over the pulpit. How is this excused anointed speech? It's sick.

  9. Look, I wasn't defending the guy. I only said your comments to the effect of "not a man of God" were judgmental. So two things here;

    1. that scripture in Timothy is specific advise on the pastoral office. Jeff Arnold isn't your pastor so you can't use that scripture to back you judging him. It, like your comments I don't approve of, is uncalled for.

    2. I don't think I was defending that "them up there, us down here" approach either. I just think you took your point a bit far with your accusation i.e. "not a man of God." I mean, maybe I should've just asked you what you meant? A bad witness? A bad preacher? Not a pastor? Not a righteous man? It's that last one I was afraid you wanted to imply, so I was all like who are you to make that call on who's righteous and who's not. I dunno, maybe the term "man of God" has a specific meaning in your context, but this is a blog open to the whole wide internet, so yeah, maybe I'm not alone in reading it as "not a righteous person."

  10. You say enough stupid and mean things, you become those things. I am just sick of mean, nasty people hiding behind the pulpit. Accountability has come to collect. Pay up.