Compared to the totally infinite God, the finite, ditzy us can't really say anything. Because like, we're sinners duh! And I was like we got scripture too for this. Like it doesn't matter that strangely the whole God-in-complete-control of everything business started coming about way late in the Old Testament after Greeks started philosophizing to us.... scripture is scripture and we can't question anything.... Remember, we're like really really depraved. So depraved that we can't really do anything to get saved. Because getting saved is Godly stuff.... and how can we humans do anything Godly in comparison to almighty-king-of this-whole creation, one and only God? Therefore it must be God who chooses to save us.... and not only that, but God does the saving thing too... you know, atonement, redemption, etc....like when you have faith or get saved or what not... Well it wasn't you who got saved. Remember, you are crap. And how does crap get saved? Well not be doing things that crappy stuff does. It must therefore totally be God. He's a freak like that and he does whatever he darn well pleases you got me? And you can't say anything against that because you are depraved. And that's the truth.
And I can hear all you ego-maniacal self-loving liberals saying things like... "well how can God say he loves us when he will knowingly send us to hell? Especially if he has the power to save all of us? ... God is love you know? And what kind of love would allow people to go to hell when God could do otherwise?"
And I'm all like "trick you crazy. You ain't God. God's love is a waaaay beyond the love that we know. Yeah some of this stuff doesn't make sense but I'm a crappy depraved human being like you so considering our limited mind...well......all I can say is I'll take God's way being above the way we think and reason."
Immanuel Kant: and I have a sweet name and I like formal dinner parties and I wrote this: Yo Calvin I get what you're throwing down.... but like we got a few issues here man. I mean I'm with you about the whole infinite God thing...maybe... but I like the effort. But there's a problem....if we're so finite and depraved....which...I think we are too... then really we can't talk much about God and what he's like and not like. You may say that the Bible tells us the truth of God... but that truth of God is mediated through a lot of human rationality and finite thinking and reason in terms of you as the Bible's reader and interpreter. It's written by humans in a human language... and like us humans have limits to our reasoning skills... so to say that we understand that God's love is above our version of love is still a kind of human logic right?
Calvin: You're lost in philosophy gettin' all 'ere smartsy fartsy. I got God's grace ya hear? You wouldn't understand none of that though. God loves me and I'm chosen. Ur not. And God'll knock you down a couple of inches if ya don't shut ur mouth. Don't come around here questioning God.
I Killed Michael Servetus and I'll kill you if you don't shut your mouth.
Hegel: LOL. First off screw that Calvin guy. If God's love is above our love.... then that means our human version of love isn't love at all you nimwit. Stop telling your wife you love her unless you're that ignorant to think your human crappy love resembles anything like God's love that apparently is inconceivable to us.
Secondly Kant you were onto something. Except totally off... Making this whole thing about the limits of reason. Yeah that's cool and all, but excuse me while I spend a few seconds sticking my finger down my throat acting like I'm gagging and the next few seconds popping my gat in your metaphorical shins. What you say about our limited reason and our inability to comprehend God is true about us humans as a whole species... Not just on reason alone. It's not like we're sittin around thinking and rationalizing and knowing our limits. For instance, let's say that you confirm what God's will is in your life by the way you feel when you pray at certain times.... Well those feelings are limited too.... You can confuse feelings as what you think is God's confirmation that he has called you to be Christian... but that is all the interpretation and understanding of a limited human. How is this not obvious? Simple simple stuff really. This is why Mormons say they feel God and think that means anything. This is why non-Christians feel God and say it's proof that they're God is real... We can either say they are lying about their feelings, which is pathetic... or you can realize that feelings themselves are not really a confirmation of anything since it's something we humans experience and interpret in each of our lives. We're humans above all. This can't be escaped no matter how much you feel or think you have special insight about how your authority comes from someone on high. Every human wants to think they're special. And you may have God on your side... but let's use a little common sense and a little decency that treats humans likes humans and stop fooling ourselves. This is called ontology and if you stopped focusing on epistemology Kant, you could have been as gangsta as me.
Basically if you're human... and speak/think/feel/act like a human... and describe a system beyond our human understanding, you are contradicting yourself. Because the description of God/heaven required a human language/thought. It's like a scientist who tried telling us what happened before the big bang and thinking he's still doing science. That scientist would be laughed at and possibly made into a creole pasta.
Calvin you can say you are depraved all you want.... and you can spend a whole lot of time working out a system that describes Christian theology..... but the fact that you are rationalizing and articulating your beliefs in human language is just making you look like your thinking privileges ought to be taken away. And you may say "it's not by flesh and blood... but by spirit...." and yeah I wrote a whole book on the philosophy of the spirit so don't even get me started on that issue. My point is you act like your theology is some-how safe from philosophical ridicule but c'mon man... all this has been was philosophy with the emotions of a preacher.
It's like those dudes who get lost in the trinity or even Oneness theology trying to explain it and then after coming to one contradiction or another... they say "well it's a mystery." What an escapist bunch of self-delusional drivel. If it's a mystery then we can't even talk about it. If you can articulate it.... then your very own description of the limits of our understanding of God's love is really just putting God in a box all over again... except it lies to itself and says it's not putting it in a box.
Stop acting like you're depraved. If you're depraved you wouldn't have any ability to talk about God's love being beyond our understanding of love at all.
Calvin, I'm not saying that you're an idiot.... but you're kinda an idiot. You can't step outside of being human while you are here dude. Man up to your humanity and stop acting like you're above humanity by claiming to be depraved. If we're crap in comparison to God, then we'd never be able to come to any thought to communicate about God whatsoever. Calvin you need a time out.
John Piper: Don't worry about him JC Jr. What we have here is a good for nothing Armenian who loves himself some free will. And besides... tell those guys that this is where faith comes in.
Hegel: LOL. Who said anything about free will? And who invited this guy? And Faith? .....Did you even read anything I wrote? Of course not, you're John Piper with a ph. d from a school that should have known better...At least understand faith outside of a definition that acts like faith is a blanket that covers up all the holes in what we say God/Truth is."
As they say in some parts: SMH.
Name's Mark Driscoll and on behalf of me, the Bible and God...
Boyz Rule! Girls Drool!
POWER ENERGY DRINKs
GOD IS RAWWWWR!!!
Boyz Rule! Girls Drool!
POWER ENERGY DRINKs
GOD IS RAWWWWR!!!
Postscript Summary: The above is basically my attempt to call out the stupidity of Neo-Calvinists. Which yeah, don't worry about the term...
But basically, Ex-Apostolic males seem to have an unconscious gravitational pull once they leave the UPC. Basically they find that the UPC's logic about the truth isn't logical enough (true). And then shoot for the more logical theology (neo-calvinism).....which is even more wrong since it bases itself in cessationism.
Except they've never been educated on how to think for themselves. And that's the error. It's a sad world where the only "thinking" options are three authors who sell their books in barnes & nobles: Driscoll/Bell/N.T. Wright.
Those guys are cute and all.... but there's a reason why their theology makes sense: It's mucky muck.