Friday, May 28, 2010

#158-Soapboxing with the Microphone

This one isn't profound, I thought we'd take a break from the heavy stuff, hopefully you get a laugh out of it. Now, I’ll be straight up with this one. Anytime you put a microphone in someone’s hand, the things that they say are more than likely going to be inflected by their personal opinions, desires, etc.

With that said, soapboxing with a microphone isn’t particularly unique to Apostolics, but I’d like to think that we do it with our own style and flair. I cherish that moment when, during intercessory prayer, the current leader with the microphone makes a statement/series of statements that elicit looks of incredulity and/or mild humorous reactions from those around me.

I think it’s possible to divide the types of prayer soapboxing into a few very common categories, which are by no means exhaustive:

Political: Self-explanatory. Ranges anywhere from disparaging particular political candidates/parties to ranting against the evils of socialism to diagramming the formation of the one-world government (the special ones can offer a time-frame). Generally begins with, “I’m not trying to make a political statement here, but….”

Confessional/Therapeutic: This type is usually reserved for the worship leader who feels impressed to interrupt the song service and talk about how terrible their day/week/month/year has been. In short, the devil’s really fought them and life generally stinks, but, this one particular song they’re about to play has come direct from God and offered hope, for them and for you. Occasionally happens during prayer service, but certainly not as common as during choir/worship.

Revenge/Spirit-Shank: Please note that this type is completely different from a praise/victory report. This has some connection, albeit dimly, to the confessional type, in that it begins by talking about how deeply the speaker has been afflicted, but the narrative ends by making some sort of triumph/snide promise of revenge against indeterminate individuals/groups. Names/specifics aren’t going to be mentioned, but they know what they did and God’s got it taken care of. (I’d say this type is rare and overall difficult to identify if you aren’t privy to the parties involved).

Rant/Apologetic: Akin to the ‘airing of grievances’ at a Festivus celebration and by far the most entertaining. This can involve colorful commentaries on society in general or particular age-groups/ethnicities. It can also serve as an opportunity to justify one’s actions or lifestyle to the church, a sort of defense if you will. Naturally this category has elements in common with the ones above and it’s a little difficult to describe, so, I’ll offer two particularly entertaining examples below.

1: This one was a rant by an angry father on an otherwise typical Wednesday night. He began by praying for this generation of youth, that they would strive for God and seek His face. It then devolved into why the youth didn’t seek God and the sorts of things they did instead, which included: not mowing the lawn when their father told them, disobeying their mother, making rude remarks back, not dressing appropriately for church, and not cleaning their room. I’ve forgotten some of the other allegations, but with each one his voice raised higher and higher. Immediately half of the church looked over to the youth section where his oldest son sat; the bewildered deer-in-the-headlights look on his face said it all. The father, breathing raggedly and sweating mildly handed the microphone back to the pastor. Laughter was stifled until after service, but only through great effort.

2: During another service one of the members of our church was so caught up in worship that he felt the need do cartwheels in the altar—and not halfway ones, but full-fledged, flamboyant cartwheels, like the ones my little sister used to do. A few of us passed each other wide-eyed glances and chuckled about it after church (true to form, in a parking lot, I believe), but there was really nothing more to it—or so we thought. The next day during a Monday night service, the cartwheeler was given the microphone to lead prayer. He immediately launched a defense of his cartwheels from the night before. Memory fails, but they went something to the effect of (shouting at the top of his lungs), “God, I love you! I love you so much that I’ve just gotta worship you and if it comes in the form of cartwheels or backflips or whatever, well, I don’t care!! If anybody wants to judge me or criticize me for it, then they’ll be judged by you!” Laughter once again had to be suppressed.

I’d like to try something different here. Let’s try a user generated post (sort of) by having you the readers offer your own stories of humorous soapboxing with the microphone. So, if you’ve got a great story, please take some time to write it up and post it in your comment!

NOTE: Use some common sense, please. No names or any sort of specifics. Also, no expletives, epithets, or anything overtly explicit/inappropriate. They’ll have to be deleted otherwise. Remember, this is done not with a spirit of reproach or criticism, but out of humor, like telling stories about your crazy family that you still love. Let’s keep this fun and light!


  1. It was long ago suggested by a wise older minister that when speaking of the disciple called Peter that he be referred to as the Apostle Peter as to avoid any awkwardness during serious moments. Over the years, the man has seemed very wise indeed.
    In the Deepest South there was a woman who had the microphone and stated that the squirrel her brother-in-law had used to scare her had perished in a trailer fire.
    Vengeance is mine...

  2. Are you sure that you meant to post ...."I cherish that moment when during intercessory prayer, the current leader with the microphone makes a statement/series of statements that elicit looks of incredulity, and or mild humorous reactions from those around me."

    So you and your friends during prayer, find it appropriate to be uninvolved, in tune with what each other is thinking about the prayer rather than praying yourselves? You know that could answer alot of the problems and issues that people have here. Maybe you should focus on prayer, worship, praise flowing from your own soul rather than anxiously awaiting any opportunity to laugh at someone who is praying.

    Just a thought Chady.

  3. T r-
    I think you take things WAY too seriously to appreciate this website. Just a thought.

  4. perhaps you should start taking church a little MORE seriously

  5. tr, good catch. That was the one sentence I agonized over more than anything when I typed up the post. I wasn't really satisfied with it and the wording is indeed poor.

    That said, I did not mean to I imply what you are inferring. The use of the word "cherish" is not a reference to whether I wait in prayer specifically to hear soapboxing, it had nothing at all to do with how I or my friends pray; I meant that I merely find it pleasurable when it does occur (a quick check of the dictionary reassures me in my use). In fact, judging an individual's prayer life, public/private and mine/anyone else's, had nothing all to do with this post. Denigrating someone's prayer life was not the intent, rather, it was to derive humor from those prayers that are outliers.

    Soapboxing represents a singular instance when, because of the exceptional nature of what is being said or done, the congregation finds it difficult to continue "focus[ing] on prayer, worship, praise flowing from [one's] own soul." Normally I would be caught up in prayer, but, alas, I am not perfect and i can't tune everything out--maybe someday, though.

  6. TR:

    Maybe you didn't grow up like the rest of us where the funny, odd, and occasionally bizarre event happened during service. For those of us who did, they bring joy, laughter and even a sense of commonality that some call shared experience or community. This is something that cannot always be shared with those who do not share our background - for instance, there are things that are funny with Apo friends that friends who are not Apo wouldn't understand or think were funny at all.

    This post simply points out and celebrates those things. I'd say the lens through which you're viewing the world it unnecessarily harsh and you could lighten up a little bit.

  7. My favorite misquote during service was a preacher (a close relation actually - with whom we've laughed about this several times, so for those of you waiting to be offended, please go elsewhere) who stated that he'd rather dwell in the house of the Lord that in the tits (should have been tents) of the wicked. Not quite sure how we all kept a straight face, but afterwards was a different story. Hilarity ensued.

  8. Chady, you didnt just reference the words being spoken, you inferred that you and your friends were looking at each other to catch each others expressions, and that they had been humored.

    I have grown up where things like that happen, this site doesnt celebrate the funny things, this site berates and demeans the things you think are funny. And as ridiculous as you find some of the soapboxing prayers there are people who find your soapboxing or grandstanding, an absoluteley offensive. To say nothing of those who dont know Christ or are already looking for reasons to walk away, we can always depend on you guys to provide additional ammnunition.

    Not that I would push this, but I think what would ruin this site for you, and take away the fun, is if Apostolics from all over just logged on and gave their personal testimonies of what God has done for them in their lives. Despite the imperfection of our church meetings, somehow their lives have been changed.

    With all of you smoke blowing, I would encourage the group of you to pull your talents together, and start a church, you would soon need to rent a sports facility to hold the crowd, I would also suggest that you not beat around the bush or show any humility in the church name,,,,,I would just go with the PERFECT CHURCH. You guys brilliance and spiritual walk is astounding, I dont know how you are capable of living such a life of sacrifice and commitment in this present world.

    By the the way of sacrifice and commitment, is there anything you have in common.?

    An aside, I have come to realize this site is as lame and boring, as it is uplifting.

  9. "Some of you have been living deep in sin, adultery, fornication, drunkenness, backstabbers, lying, drugs, lust of the spirit..." The spiritual beating and accusations went on for a while, only to end with an alter call. As expected nobody moved from their seat. After that rally of sins, who was about to be cast into that lot? It was followed by the pastor taking the mic and encouraging a general alter call.

  10. I believe what we have here is a situation of irony. Chady wanted this post to be light and fun and it has now turned to the worst. I'm sorry Chady.

    Dear TR, if you find this sight of no beneficial use then why do you continue to come here? Please don't berate the author because of your difference of opinion.

    Chady I hope that you find the rest of us uplifting and please continue to write. These posts are humorous and brighten my day.

  11. Chuckles.....if this brightens your should get out more often.

  12. TR

    I think what annoys me most is the way you come against others for the sake of the church when you are not uplifting or supportive at all. The fact that you find no shame in tearing down your brothers and sisters in Christ is completely appalling. Your comments are negatory and meant to hurt. When people try to converse with you in a reasonable manner you turn against them with a fierce attack. How terribly juvenile and animalistic of you.

  13. Juvenile???? Animalistic?>?? And you get a glory pass to hurl whatever attacks you want correct?

    I dont find anything uplifting on this site. so it would be difficult to be you understand that?

    And as far as I know as Lee mentioned, how am I to know who these people are? Am I to assume that they are my brothers and sisters in Christ, because they are set out on a relentless attack of all that they think, is debatable, demean christians through sarcasm,..And you suggest I uplift these people and applaud them as brothers and sisters in Christ.? Absolutely brilliant. I have no idea why that concept did not occur to me, thank you

  14. Sorry I am so late on the scene. Chady, I laughed along with your post. Good stuff.

    My one story that I have heard of (but did not witness) was when I guy when to prophesy over the church, and quoted God as saying "that girl in the back of the church in the blue skirt needs to stop fornicating." Of course, God would pull a stunt like that where he calls someone out via clothing specifics but fails to recite their name...

    And T.R., how many more comments until you get as bored of this site as you really say and stop coming and commenting? We have had two previous who throw their verbal grenades for a while, and then after seeing the circularity of the arguments, choose to pack shop up and not come back (or at least comment)....

    Just give me a rough estimate is all I'm asking for? (10-15 comments left in you?)...

  15. Riley,,,,,wondered where you had disappeared to...maybe needed to refuel? The arguments are only circular because you guys wont answer the questions. Like Lee allowing the Lutherans into the brotherhood, but refusing to acknowledge acceptance of the Pope as a brother. What gives you guys the right to announce one a brother and another not?

    But I dont think it is just your critics that have left for a while...I checked your went from what a couple hundred a day to something in the teens? So really you guys are just bagging with yourselves unless we come along. I mean after a while how much can you talk about looking around during prayer to find people to mock or belittle?.How many times can you text insults during church to attack brothers or sisters in church before that gets tired?: .How many times can you interview someone and then publish (or at least say you publish) the testimony.( which may or may not have been the whole testimony, you had complete editorial control over it, and to be honest with you how do we know we could trust you?0

    It may be a problem of boredom across the whole spectrum. Actually a couple of your bloggers have been real whiners, about confrontation. Kind of surprised me how pathetic they sounded.

  16. "What gives you guys the right to announce one a brother and another not? "

    Actually, TR, I responded to your so-called claims, but as it turns out, you keep making up arguments. I've never renounced anyone on this site. The Gospel itself united us, our faith and doubt separate us. Go back to the other thread and quit pretending I ignored your "grasping for straws" argument.

    We all stand up measured against what is right. I'm no more concerned about condemning a person than I am on "approving" one to be my brother. I enjoy discussing the ideas on this site.

    You sound like a frustrated and angry old man, TR. (France is it?)
    You abhor the site, make-up arguments, look for an inch of confrontation, decry how lousy the site is, but you've been the most faithful poster. What is it that keeps you here? Are you the great Defender of Truth? Are you accomplishing a secret mission for Jesus? Please, divulge.

  17. Chuckles, thanks for the defense and thanks to those posters who volunteered their stories, I hope more of you can share yours, too. This post really was just supposed to be a fun one.

    Your remarks are terribly depressing and I've taken some time to think about how to respond or even if I should respond at all. I did like your idea about offering testimonials, though, so here's mine:

    My father was physically and emotionally abusive. When he wasn't stalking around the house with a knife in a psychotic rage or beating me, my brother, or my mom, he was out running around with other women. It didn't make sense to me why my mom didn't leave him, but she had been raised to believe divorce was wrong. When I was thirteen my father unceremoniously divorced my mother, through the church (not upc, for those of you that care), and snuck out of the country with a younger woman, abandoning us where we were living overseas at the time. I grew up hating my father and hating the religion he had used to justify his actions (then and afterward).

    Meanwhile, my mom had joined a upc missionary church and when we moved back to the states she joined a church here. If you haven’t already gathered, I grew up more or less an atheist. In the beginning I was forced to go and i have to admit that i really didn't want anything to do with people who seemed crazier than the old churches my father dragged us to once a year or a religion that my father twisted to justify his actions. My sacrifice, you ask? As I got into church I lost friends and family, as just about everyone who’s ever switched faiths can tell you, so it’s nothing special, guess you’ve got me there. Slowly, a transformation took place within me. Bit by bit God revealed Himself to me (and continues to do so) through His grace and mercy and the wonderful kindness of the people at the church. Despite my petulance, immaturity, unfaithfulness, and general dereliction in just about everything, He's continued to be patient and loving towards me.

  18. So there’s my extremely abbreviated testimony. I deserve nothing and yet I really owe everything to Jesus--not to the upc, not to the church I go to, and certainly not to tradition. I came into this thing late in my emotional and intellectual development, “born out of time,” as it were, and I honestly couldn’t care less about all of the rigmarole we as a body of believers have created to mediate Christ. Jesus saved me and He’s all I really want to know—I desperately need Him and not all of the nonsense we’ve erected in middle. That’s the crux of this site, for me, at least; I can’t speak for any of the other posters. It’s finding man-made phenomena and asking if it’s truly beneficial to a walk with God. Sometimes some of the stuff I see is so absurd, so non-Christ centered that I just have to laugh about it or else I’d become terribly upset by it (which, I suppose, mirrors the reactions of so many of the people who hate this site). Humor is a coping mechanism, a way of talking about things that we otherwise couldn’t speak about, hence the nature of this site.

    In the end, that’s how I’ve attempted to work out my own walk with God and if it resonates with others I hope they can take something from it and in return offer something to help me in mine. tr, the frequency and disaffection with which you post leads me to believe that you aren’t as bored by this site as you claim, it seems you’re rather obsessed, but, if what you say is true then I’d encourage you to go somewhere else where you can grow in your walk. Simple as that.

  19. TR,

    I was not saying your arguments were circular. I was just saying, the arguments get repetitious from both sides.

    Second the "whole brotherhood" question is not my own. It's Lee's. But i will say this, unless you accept papal authority, we are free to conclude within our own selves who we consider "brother" or who we do not consider brother. It's completely subjective. You can claim the bible is ultimate authority (which it is), but the ultimate question is whose "interpretation" of the bible is ultimate authority? I do not know of one denomination who claims their interpretation of the bible is a lie. Rather, everyone calls their interpretation the truth. So it is here that subjectivism raises supreme because there is simply no arbitrator present on earth that can claim absolute infallibility of interpretation.

    As for the stats, if Chady and I were playing to an audience of each other, lee and the wonderful chester from past posts, my speculation is we would continue, because at least for myself, I do not follow numbers, but rather am quite pleased "to follow the argument wherever it may lead."

    And T.R. about trusting whether or not what we are posting is true...

    Good Boy! You and everyone who reads this blog needs to hold a scent of skepticism to that which is posted here. So we would like to say we are giving "the truth" here, but that's not what matters. This is the internet for goodness sake. Where foundationless opinions are the norm. The internet has no philosophy binding it to allow editors to post only the truth. It's absolutely a free for all. So to come here and expect absolute truth here or take everyone at their word would be absolutely clumsy, and I would be very concerned about the soul who does so. So ultimately I would like you to trust me, and I can give you my word, that if God ever held me to account of what I have written on the blog, the one thing I can say without fear of reproach is that I earnestly believed every word and action I did on this site as true. But that matters not, because this is the internet and you have the absolute right to trust me or not. It's something that I can't control.

    My one request TR is that you take your suspicion of me and this website and apply it to all facets of life (media, church, social interaction, etc....). For the internet seems to be the only thing that encourages the reader to be "informed with caution." Everything else wants you to accept the knowledge they present as absolute truth.

    Lastly, please answer the many more comments can we expect out of you until you get so fed up with this abyss of a website and leave in it's entirely? Hopefully that last comment you made got us one step closer, right?

  20. Chady,

    Your last comment was awesome. Your summary of the purpose of this blog is more than I could ever put into words. thank you.

  21. Chady, not that you owe anything to the church, but it was a UPC mission church that your mother took you to correct>? And I am sure that whereever there is a hungry heart God will have laid a path to Him, however it was kind of a good thing that there was a mission church your mother was led to, correct or no? I mean I have heard peoples testimonies thanking God for the day they walked into the service that began the change in their life.

    In regards to you riley. I will be done when I am done. In regards to the internet, at least when people physically fellowship with each other their is the capability to know those people and build a trust that would not come so easily on the internet. With the exception of the people you dont know who cheer you on here....are not the people you know and flow with personally, the important people in your life>??

    Of course you dont like me or anyone that opposes you.

    I can give you a summary of the site over the last couple days too....People didnt have fun with your Holy Ghost testimony and tongues entry...did not go over, Chady shared with us that he and friends will notice the looks on each others faces during "soapboxing prayers"
    And you know how I feel about Lee's slippery slope. I dont have to make up an argument Lee, you print them up for me. And there is much more than an inch to confront. And its not so much the site that is bad, I am sure with the right approach it could serve a good purpose, answering questions rather than creating them, Because thats what you do isnt it..? Just in case the question wasnt there you put it there.

    And if you thought there was any redeeming factor in your defense of "is the blog truth, is it not the truth....yada yada yada...The troubling thing is the only thing you or your group ever confront are debate is opposition. People can hint at drinking, no response from you, people can suggest they are leaving the church, no response from you, people can ridicule, condemn or debate church disciplines, no response from you. One thing will get a response from you, defense of Apsotolics or disciplines. Have you ever asked one of your liberal bloggers who support little to nothing Apostolic, to leave>>? That would be a big no.

    But thats fine, thick skinned here....can take it. Happy Memorial Day


    Please take a look at the stats again, we have been averaging 145 unique visits a day. and the weekends statistically will have lower traffic as most of our traffic is during business hours.

  23. TR, Are you trying to figure out still how to make people like you? I hear Dale Carnegie has a good book for you. May help you learn how to "get along," even at the point of disagreement.

  24. TR and Lee,

    I've skimmed most of the comments and I just want to say a quick something.
    I've been in online discussions like these since 2002, with Godplace Forums and The Apostolic Youth Network. Over the past nine years I've seen things like this arise a lot. Two people will somehow find each other detestable and start these back-and-forth arguments. They go on and on and on and never seem to end. The thing is nothing comes of it. Ever. It's just words on a page. Sometimes it's an outlet where we personify and project some of our animosities onto this person we see online because we have no means of confronting things elsewhere.

    I've done it. There are a million things I'd like to say to my former leadership but I can't really so it comes out here.
    I think we're all doing a disservice to ourselves, to our churches and to each other by engaging in this kind of dialogue. The bottom line is that we're not accomplishing anything here.

    You two clearly have some sort of problem with what the other says, and quite possibly know people similar to yourselves whom you'd like to have a talk with and don't feel right about it so it's coming out here.

    I'd just like to politely ask you to direct comments more towards the subject matter than each other. This isn't so much a discussion forum as it is a blog which allows for comments related to the subject at hand.

    If you're into discussion then I'd direct you to or

    Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to talk down to you guys or anything. I'm saying this because I've found myself doing the exact same thing. It just really serves no purpose but irritating yourself and working toward no solution.

    Please take my comment into consideration, no hard feelings, and God bless you both.

  25. Glen,
    My comments aren't passive-aggressive, but thanks for chiming in. I can prove to TR I don't amen ALL of you SAL boys.

    I'm responding to ridiculous charges that have come from him.

    True, this isn't a "discussion forum" but it's inevitable that discussion happens. Call them "comments" or whatever, but that's what it becomes. And that's what it has become the last couple of weeks (for some reason hmmm).

    I can't guarantee it will be the last time I lower myself to respond with the same back-and-forth. And yes, it's a huge time-waster. Thanks for offering your words anyway.

    Beside, you're not a SAL administrator anymore anyway *sticks out tongue*

  26. Glen I appreciate your comments. I will tell you and the others though, I definitely think there is a problem in sowing seed of discord....I mean some of this stuff is just nonsense...Ok so you have a beef with HMH....but to get on here and blog about communicating with your blogger friends whether through texting or eye contact while worship is going on, I am sorry,,,,,completely inappropriate.

    Then to take those things and plaster them on a website, that is a gathering place for people who are questioning Apostolic guys know exactly what happens....and that is why you do it.

    Your mission is accomplished when you suck other bloggers into your nonsense ridicule and belittling. It makes you feel a little taller if you can make Apostolics by any means feel smaller.

    And nothing could be a more obvious object lesson than what goes on here. You guys get bent out of shape by confrontation, or if I or someone else, brings sarcasm or mild abuse into it....whooa watch dont do that to the sallys....

    Doesnt that open your eyes a bit.? If you who are not pastoring a group of have no community commitment, dont like it when someone confronts you, why in the world do you get off on confronting and abusing Apostolics with your sarcasm rude humor and attacks.?

    But you guys cant get that because if you admitted that it made any would either substantially change the attitude on this site, or shut it down. Both of which would be acceptable.

    And Lee, you need to settle down and be a gentleman, obviously you have not taken Dale Carnegies....How to win friends and influence people...however I have, and actually was asked to intern teach the class....but I need no more accolades. Lee you called my charges RIDICULOUS> isnt that kind of mean? Lower yourself to respond?? It get your goat when someone hits you with what you refer to as ridiculous charges doesnt it? Hmmmmmm sounds oddly familiar.

    Now I am sure that this scripture will be up for debate, but do unto others as you would have them do unto you... I think that is from the Bible,,,,I believe it is something that even your brother Luther would believe in.

    Just one more aside. Dont compare your petty posts to something as noble as what Luther did. I am quite sure that he would not have posted anything like one of your blogs in his thesis.

    Debating aside, I probably would be bored having a cup of coffee with you, but I hope for you personal triumphs.

  27. yeah Glen, I will side with Lee on this one. I do think any place where conversation can happen is important to let it happen. Sure it will make us uncomfortable, but is that not an unfortunate consequence to having a place to be open about such conversations as these?

  28. Well TR I have to disagree with you on that last one. What Martin Luther did was exactly what these admin's do here. Luther studied the Bible and taught his interpretation of it (the course was several years long). During his studies he came along several items which the Catholic church was doing and he disagreed (mostly with the indulgences). He wrote down 95 points wherein he disagreed with the Catholic (again, mostly dealing with indulgences) and nailed them to the Church door. He didn't nail them there for any reason other than that was where people would post notices for the public. The church was a place where you knew people would be.

    The admin's here on SAL are doing the exact same thing. They have studied the Bible and have taken their findings to a place of common meeting (the internet). The problem is that the Catholic church made a big stink about it (just as the upc and apo, penta, as well as yourself are doing about SAL and the admins). The thing is though, they are defending their points because this is what they believe.

    Luther wasn't trying to cause a major, bold, controversy but rather make a statement as to what he believed according to what he had studied. Here at SAL they are doing the same thing. I myself think that we place to much emphasis on the edifice in which we as a church come together to "forsake not the assembling" Hebrews 10:25 of Gods people. I don't disagree with the idea of a congregational meeting but I think we make it way to important. I see no problem with Chady looking around because in Matthew it says "enter into your closet and pray in private and the father who sees in private will reward you openly" (not an exact quote, came off the top of my head) I believe 99% of all the prayer that will make a difference in your walk with Jesus Christ will take place on your own time in private because that's the time that matters.

    Anyways that's just my two cents that probably needs to be critiqued by somebody more learned than I. TR I say this with the utmost sincerity, Please calm down!!!!! I guess it's more of a beg than a statement.

  29. Wow, TR. Be a gentleman? Throw scripture at me? Tell me the issue is not handling confrontation? Then ask me if the kettle is black? How about we agree you are at least as ugly as the person you are accusing me of being. Because it sure sounds that way. Your boredom in sharing coffee with me -- perhaps. Then again, maybe you'd be complaining the whole time to even have a discussion.

    Seriously, get a clue. You're a Carnegie Official Spokesperson?? Really? Do they know this?

    You think such topical confrontations as have happened on this site are inappropriate. Many others don't. You think we must pastor individuals in order to create discussion on issues. Others don't.

    If you don't appreciate the humor on the site, and the occasional controversial topics taken on by the bloggers here, then just move on. Do you really think by your suggestion someone will wake up tomorrow and shut it all down? What do you hope to accomplish? Don't you realize your disagreement is welcome, but your slander and whining is just plain annoying? You expect everyone that contributes here to herald you and throw out the red carpet (and then cry foul when they don't)?

    Good luck with whatever your goals are here.

  30. "Now I am sure that this scripture will be up for debate, but do unto others as you would have them do unto you... I think that is from the Bible,,, " -- The SAL Gentleman of the Year, TR

  31. Chuckles, Thanks for chiming in.

    I wanted to comment on what you said regarding "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together".

    You are right that it is overly-emphasized. But I think what is overly-emphasized is not "assembling together" as much as what we've defined as "church" and specifically "having church" in "church buildings." However, Christianity without community is not Christianity at all. Christianity is the opposite of selfishness, and is much about others: edification, bearing burdens, sharing communion, etc. This happens with community.

    What you say about private devotion and prayer are definitely valid too. Somehow, we must see our faith working out in community as trumping everything else. We do a bad job with opening up toward one another, confessing, sharing accountability, being genuine, etc. This is because of an overly-emphasized church building gathering, but not enough emphasis on community.

  32. Chuckles, when you figure out the percentage of importance you feel is the correct amount to place on public let us know, wont you? I can only assume that you think the public gathering that would be appropriate is this one? In fact if there was no public gathering, you people here would have no content. Now I am sorry if that makes you a little shallow....but that is what it boils down to.

    Chuckles no matter how many times you repeat "that is exactly what we do here" does not make it accurate." I am not stating the act. Restaurants do much the same thing. They post menus that you can choose from, and even advertise specials on outdoor signs. I admire your study of the thesis, however my reference was to the content, not the act (which is kind of simple to assume that is what I meant...but I get that) The content of Luthers "posts" were intense, of crucial importance to evangelicals. Not discussing how he and his friends were looking at each other during worship in the catholic church and found some of the action humorous, the fallback prayer, prayer as a video game, and your general mockery of just about anything you decide to text or laugh about during and after a service. And chuckles...I am completely calmed down, One can debate, completely calm and that would be me. Not once have I been anything but completely calm, almost overly passive on here. But thanks for your concern.

    Lee, I couldnt agree with you more, whining is exactly what both do. You and I, read the posts. I disagree with you, you come on and attack and you do it to anyone who contradicts doesnt take an idiot to realize that, Read your blogs. You will see it as plain as day.. no confrontation with anyone who is on your side, boom the hammer comes down as soon as anyone contradicts, and you do it extremely rudely. So lets all take a lesson. I have read the remarks you make against people who are just making a comment.

    Your posts are just as whiney in fact more so, I kind of have fun on know the kind of fun you guys have in public assembly. I laugh at the things you say and your approach.

    As much as you think you have on public assembly or Apo., you find it odd that anyone would have an equal amount to laugh at or contradict you about???? Get a grip. Once again, your whole website is built on attacking Apos. T

    ake out your subject matter that does not attack Apostolics (most needlessly, because none you are perfect either, I know that doesnt register with you, but it is the point I am making.) and you would be left with a picture and your purpose statement.

    So your whole website, attacking Apostolics, whining, and the oppostion comes on and points out your problems, contradictions in your attacks, as well they should ,and you start the whining and attacks and it goes on. You guys want to be on to another funny bone and you cant stand dealing with contradiction, yet you promise you welcome you dont,,,,it is either circular or linear or something you arent going to go into on here but maybe through private email, or over a cup of coffee....

    Now tell me that is not what has gone on here.

    In regards to public gathering, The Sermon on the Mount, Lowering someone through the ceiling, public gathering was consistent throughout the Bible and is essential to Gods move today, whether you lappers>(laptop) think it is or not. You argue over something so ridiculous as a meeting place.Read the NT....there is a whole layout or pastors bishops, teachers, they were told to go to an upper room and pray.....TOGETHER...

    And if it were all just happening today, I have a feeling the word would be go meet together, and not go log on to your laptop.

  33. Guys I wasn't trying to talk down or condescend or anything.

    I'm just saying I've found myself in these exact same battles time and again and in the end I'm only frustrating myself. I wasn't trying to pass judgement or anything of that nature. I'm just saying arguing online feels like a great way to blow off some steam from time to time, but before you know it you're sucked in, checking the boards once every hour, thinking of what you're going to say next, etc etc. Maybe it's just me, and it could in fact be, but you just get to the point where you have to walk away from it because you're just ticking yourself off more than anything.

    If that isn't you guys then by all means continue. But if you find yourself with a growing animosity toward the other guy, whom you've never seen it might be time to take a breather..

    Just please don't assume I'm lashing out. I know it's like the pot calling the kettle black, but that's why I'm saying this. I've wasted SO much of my time and energy in these debates and only embittered myself. Don't wind up like me guys, it's not worth it.

  34. Agree with you 100 percent, Glen.

  35. Glen I agree with you also, but honestly, I check this in the a.m. sometimes, maybe not,,,,sometimes at nite....sometimes....and I dont get ruffled...

    I just think it is important to dispute points of view...even to the extent of proving the opposition is incorrect on issues. I just dont think it would be healthy to let people just assume because someone sounds intellectual they must be right, when in fact they could be completely wrong. If it isnt confronted, the myth goes on, and many people are just not going to do the homework or research, it is much to easy to let someone else do the work, and take their word.

    But absolutely no animosity felt from you. You have every right to feel the way you do and voice it. I just know for me, I say what I have to say, then go to work, or go to sleep. Thats it, no hard feelings, I know of some of these people, but dont know anyone personally.

    Have a great week Glen, and thanks for your remarks.

  36. But TR your contention is an issue with the site in general (which is not "mine" anymore than it's "yours"). You don't get the humor. You don't agree with it. Therefore, you aren't really interacting with any of the posts. You've come to pick a fight -- so don't be appalled when we haven't given you a great big bear hug.

    You accepted the whiney title but responded "but you whine more!" Okay. Sure.

    Your blanket generalizations of how I've disagreed with people are baseless. If you're referring to jerks who log on looking for a fight, I am giving them exactly what they want. You don't have hard feelings, this gets you going. You live for it.

    Regarding public gatherings, us "lappers" (another affectionate name you throw at us -- what you are a "desker"?) have no consistent position. Chuckles chimed in, I responded. So when you rant, please clarify.

    You're animosity toward those you communicate online is loud and clear. Ironically, it's given you your own little soapbox as well.

    Attacking Apos? You just don't get it, that's all. Fair enough. This blog is similar to StuffChristiansLike, which is a site maintained by Christians. Sure, several of us have beef with certain elements within the Apostolic church, and we are the ones that sometimes hijack posts like these and move them from the intent SAL posts with. But it's just like a real-time discussion, we laugh, and then a discussion may ensue. Some are content with finding the humor in some of the sillyness that we do, and then others of us ask "why?"

    Glen, you are absolutely right. It's a waste of time. I'm already "sucked in" so to speak. At the same time, growing up I always got the IGNORE and "sweep the question under the rug" antics, so I'm guilty to a fault of responding to EVERYTHING. You're right though, this communication with TR is just more of what Anonmymous blessed us with earlier. He doesn't care to discuss or interact on issues,it's just a boxing match, and he's agitated we dare even talk about any issues.

  37. I will try to answer some of your questions and accusations.

    First I do get this site. Let me explain it to you slowly. The group created the forum, which was built around mockery,and sarcasm. I just followed their lead.

    I am not responsible if you do not approve or enjoy my sense of sarcasm against you, but the fact is many of the bloggers take part in daily abuse and mockery of Apostolic doctrine, leadership, and worship.

    Now I suppose that there are people offended by this approach , but you explain it as the purpose of the site.

    So someone comes on, and mocks your approaches, your attitudes, mixing in some humor, now that offends you ,correct? Now explain to me, what is the difference in your sarcastic attacks and abuse on what you disagree or think is funny about Apos, but you think it is out of line in reverse?

    I do address some of the subject matter, and you guys get mad, or realize that you are wrong, and you dont like it.

    In that way I will say that I have accomplished a little of what I intended to .
    When I read some of the blogs, I thought it would be a shame if people just took these posts as fact, and not challenge how truthful or they were or how prevalent the attitude is in the Apostolic movement.

    So I would encourage anyone on here to always check and recheck anything that is said on here.

    I wasnt referring to "jerks" (and that is quite a harsh statement just because they are making a point that you dont agree with) And you give them a fight?

    You are wrong, I dont live for this, however there are times I do enjoy debate, and I have to say I find your attacks humorous.

    Not a desker, a lapper here...but it was a cute attempt, however didnt get the rest of your paragraph with chuckles and all. Your animosity is loud and clear. You sound very angry, I think mine just comes across sarcastic with even a little smile.

    And you are wrong again, I am not agitated

    I do interact with some of the issues, you guys have a problem, because I take it to a point that you will not respond,and thats my problem?

    Now I will tell you how I feel. Lets use for a moment the term "laptop liability" Are the attacks, the mockery, the sarcasm ,worth the collateral damage.?

    You guys have no idea sometimes who logs on here and reads. You dont know where there walk with God is. They may be ready to throw in the towel and walk away, in fact there have been a couple of times that has basically been said.

    Words are powerful, I dont care how funny you may think a situation is,it may be the last straw for someone else. And to be perfectly honest, when you openly state in your posts that you are looking at your friends during community worship and prayer, when you talk about being in a service and texting, sorry I just dont get how someone can be that out of touch, that disrespectful.

    I mean it just seems plain stupid that you would get blown out of shape if I am not on point or interacting on the issues. Yet some of the leaders of this site, along with readers are completely ignoring, and playing their own game right during services. Are you guys really that big a bunch of idiots that you dont get the comparison.? This is nothing but a website, it is not being led by God, it is not community prayer or worship, it is people that debate and create confusion, yet you think it is great. On the other hand you sit in church maybe God is moving maybe not, but you are completely uninterested, disconnected looking for something to laugh at. Whats up with that.

    I am going to spell his name wrong, so anyone wanting to go to his facebook page will have to get the spelling correct, I will just give it to you as it sounds. He is a substantial figure in the Apostolic movement. His name is something like Bro. Klinedants or something like that...I couldnt pull it up like that but some of you may know who he is. I understand he has posted a very good piece on his facebook page, you might want to check it out.

  38. TR,

    I remember it like it was last week,...actually it was probably 2 weeks ago when I was chillin on my comp enjoying the verbiage and style of my favorite baseball announcers of my coveted sports team, the Detroit Tigers. For they were engaging in one of their daily battles for American League supremacy. The times were heavenly. I could not ask for more. God was smiling on all of us and I was welcoming in the onset of summer through observation of God's favorite pastime: baseball (before this gets attacked, please note this is pure sarcasm).

    But lo and behold, all was not well, and fate had another thing in mind, as in my inbox I received a comment on SAL from one, "TR" and in this comment, hell had broken loose through a comment of overwhelming cruelty. The comment, while effort was sincere, lacked clarity and overall direction. The tone of the comment was sarcasm but it lacked the ingenuity of humor behind it. And to find out that this was not some kind of joke by God but this comment was indeed championed as coming from a "true apostolic" (or at least so I perceived). The Terror of it!

    You see T R, the world is really messed up right now. There is a lot of oil in some shallow sea down south. My own city, Detroit, is decaying in flames by the day. Israel and Turkey are nearing the direction of deathblows to each others. We are in the worst economic crisis in decades. Our own denomination is falling to the taunts of uncertainty from the pulling gales of the Left and the Right. So it only makes sense that such catastrophic comments as yours T R was afforded to the blog as a fresh reminder that soon we will all soon be dead, and there is nothing worth living for in the material world. So I thank you TR for being the commenter to lead the funeral march to our deaths.

    Should this be the Ice Age, I would nominate you first and foremost to be encapsulated into a glacier in hopes that your being would serve as a monument to these times for all of future humanity to observe "this is who we were." Your demonstration of choice rhetoric caused great distaste in my oral palate. In fact I nominate you to lead our charge of symbolic failure because you encompass exactly the attitude we as a species are in.

    At first I suspected an intellectual handicap on your part sir. But it became very clear that you were not so dim as I once supposed. You at times resurrected yourself above the slimy sludge which I had previously envisioned as your living circumstances. Your arguments were decent at times. But the rhetoric sir! I pray the more education in such regards.

  39. But what pulverized my soul most about your comments was not what happened initially, but rather what grew inside me exponentially like a swift cancer. For as your comments grew and grew, and your polemic against texting in church became your crutch for your superior position, I found within myself the worst of all intellectual horrors alive and kicking: Apathy. When apathy grows in I, I know my heart will soon harden. My life will be transfixed on nothingness. And your comments led me straight into such a cause.

    You may claim victory here sir. And I suppose an applause of tiny hands should be afforded to you for drawing such a debased emotion within me as that of apathy.

    But alas, through fate or chance I know not which, I finished up reading Moby Dick today. And dear sir, after reading of the ignorant courage of Ahab to kill that White whale with all logic thrown overboard, I found as well an illogical fire rousing in my soul. And what fire was this? A fire that thirsts for one last rebuttal (that which you are reading here), as I go down to my dying grave of apathy to you and your type.

    On behalf of all decency left in the human race, I do not wish to be bothered in the future by your essay writing debacles. Please confine any of your writing endeavors against this site strictly to my email. It is here that I have a faint hope of restoration from the apathy within me regarding your being. And if the discussion were to continue through my email (, I suppose we can abandon the wit and slander and stereotypes (for which you and I are both guilty) and get to the meat of the arguments. Us apostolics are a hardworking people who deserve far better than what you have offered us. We want to progress past this historical downward spiral of this age and do not wish to be subjected to your black death of writing style that you have given us as a reminder of our century. If I am to read one more comment of yours across any public domain outside of Everyones Connected, I will consider it an act of harassment and commit the cyber authorities on you immediately.



  40. Your whole entry riley can be turned back on yourself. Especially, "We Apostolics are a hardworking people who deserve far better than what you have offered us."

    Go to, he and the others following the discussion may be able to enlighten you better than I.

    And I relinquish to you this glorious site. Thank you again for the telling tour. Sincerely

  41. One more thing, are you really blaming the attitude of this site on the oil spill, the economy, etc?? Why didnt you throw in the embarassment of Kwuami, the failures of Bush,and if they ran out of your favorite girl scout cookies.

    Attention people, see what happens when you confront or debate the site?> I find it amazing that he would go off on me like he did for causing confusion and discord,on a blog,... he must not have liked being wrong on the legal stuff. But why Pastors havent logged on to read him for the confusion and discord he has helped to sow in their churches is beyond me.

    And just an aside, let me make it clear,,,,I am making no allegations or accusations, but two of the last times that I visited the site, my computer was warned of a security breach, I'm thankful I have a good system. Have a great day and baseball season.

  42. T R,

    Real quickly, the whole comment was a joke. I do not really blame the attitude of the site on an oil spill or the economy.

    The comment I left was heavily influenced by one of my favorite authors, John Kennedy Toole. I also left the comment because I was in a terrible mood about Armando Gallaraga losing a perfect game in the 9th inning on a bad call by the ump. I elected you to be my whipping boy. Please note that outside of critiquing your rhetoric I did not discuss any arguments nor pretended to make any logical arguments whatsoever. So it really made me laugh when I saw you even debating that comment.

    And secondly, I went to Doug's facebook, and his page...Could not find the specifics you were talking about outside of a few tweets that may address what I think you were getting at. Where is it specifically?

  43. TR, My Fellow Lapper,

    You keep crying foul and it's just comical.

    You insist people aren't extending a friendship ring to you because you have a different opinion. Are you that blind? Really?

    I love also how you claim to be exercising humor and sarcasm in your posts. Am I missing something? No matter how much you type "I'm not angry," you in fact sound that way.

    And by my idiom "jerks" I'm referring to people acting like jerks, not just those who have a different opinion.

    You feel like a great crusader, protecting the masses from a blog site that has "little influence" as has been said.

    Regarding Doug, is it the part that says "Criticisms should be voiced in an heirarchical manner?" (parphrase)

    I also encourage everyone to check and re-check what they read/hear, and no matter who it's from! Glad we can agree on this advice!

  44. riley,,,you are so funny, such a joker, no wonder you started this site. And you thought that I took your oil spill as serious, you dont know my sarcasm by now? So hate to burst your self inflated bubble, but there was no debate going there....

    I have to give you a hand though, you really put some time in to those paragraphs, that is some of your best writing yet. You were absolutely brutal with the slimey depths and dim wit. The Shakespearean like prose was quite impressive,. You really outdid yourself.

    You are one funny guy. I hope I didnt get to you riley, cause it kind of sounds like you are flipping out a bit. Was interesting reading really, watching the cucumber, that passes the dirty work to his chumps, finally try to take a bite out of crime himself.

    Didnt you recognize my humor>?

    And Lee sorry but you are just too boring to even waste another typed sentence for. Have a great weekend

  45. "You are boring" = "I have nothing to say to that"

    It is what it is. Glad you agree.

    I will definitely have a good weekend.

  46. This TR guy is annoying. Like a petulant child. May as well stick your tongue out and make funny faces. Really sounding silly.

  47. you guys are suprisingly easy, genuinely simple

  48. Such an antagonist TR. Would you please tell me what you feel you have accomplished by leaving behind your comments here?

  49. TR,

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you are a pastor, yes?

  50. chuckles..are you a clinical psychologist? If yes, are you a proponent of cognitive therapy? Im not so much a fan of that approach. I have watched people go through this technique and it didnt seem to help at all. Of course maybe they were just a poor choice for this type therapy. Just wondering if you were trying to manipulate me into a patient therapist conversation.

    Allow me, if you will to turn the table on you ..what exactly have you accomplished? LOL>....Tough one huh??T

    There have been times that you guys have been so easily distracted all ten of the side current comments were a couple from me,,,,and the rest from you guys about me. For a week thats all that was happening on here....So you tell me laughy...what do you think I have accomplished ,what have you?

    There is a lesson to be learned here so read. When I said you guys were genuinely simple...I meant it. The only thing that I could compare it to, is an ice cream cart rolling into an elementary math class. If it wasnt effecting you guys, you should ignore it, and let it go away....but the truth is you are worse than a bunch of little school kids rushing that ice cream truck.

    I have single handedly captivated this whole website and held it hostage for a couple weeks. What does that say about you? If it doesnt make any dont have anything to argue about....if it is mindless dribble....nothing to worry about.....if it has no basis....nothing to worry about....if it isnt relevant to some of the character of this site....nothing to worry about.

    We all know by your actions quite the contrary is true.

    And I am not a pastor. I wouldnt have the patience for the type people on this site. I am a pretty good judge of character, and would have a difficult time maintaining the dignity and calm that pastors must possess. I would probably grab a couple shirt collars and throw them out the door, and I am sure that would not look good.

    I hope you are not offended by the truth in this post. have a great weekend.

  51. I have to give you some form of praise for your manipulation. Very skillful indeed. I was looking more towards your goal of leaving comments on this site. Are you trying to pull the discussion away from the post and into an argument? Are you trying to warn the young and innocent that this site is a trap that will teach them nothing but lies ways to mock the religion of which they are basing their lives. Are you actually trying to change the minds and motives of the admins on this site? Or are you trying to appease the frustration in yourself and put into words which will draw out discussion? I'm not doing anything behind the scenes except try to understand your motive. It frustrates me to not have an answer to things and I was just curious if you would enlighten me as to why you continue to come back to this website and leave comments such as you have.